To think the Labour Party is finished

[Flashbangandgone]

...as a credible opposition. I read earlier that MPs involved in the attempted coup have admitted failure, and that support in the party is too strong to risk a leadership contest.... So you have a party whose leader has the backing of less than 20% of its MPs, and there being no apparent way of resolving it. The party is now utterly dysfunctional and I can't see any positive way out. I'm not a Labour Party supporter, but this is surely bad for the country.

it seems all parties are finished to me

I find it all fascinating in a horrific kind of way. The Tories fucked up with the referendum and instead of Labour banding together to hammer them on this (which a well organised political party ought to be able to do) they have instead decided to go kamikaze. Lots of headlines are about the shambles that the Labour party finds itself in, nudging out stories about the lack of coherent brexit planning, etc.

I thought the Labour party were in opposition to the conservatives, but they only seem to be opposing themselves... I almost wish that my local elections south east England would have a member from the snp on the next ballot as they at least seem to be doing a better job of calling out the Tories when they fuck up

Labour will split - centrist part will either form new party or form coalition with Libdems. Think Tories need to split too. I want to move to PR, coalition-based political system (mostly based on watching Borgen).

Corbyn will be forced to stand down. I assume he has a plan to rally the hard left under a new banner called Momentum. Unless Labour gets the Unions to support them rather than JC, then they are dead.

It's all about the money, Jeremy is jealous of the millions Blair is getting and he wants his piece of the pie.

Oh please. Whatever criticism you can aim at JC I don't think you can accuse him of chasing the ££££££.

Peachpudding I think that's a pretty spurious claim to make about a man who claimed £8.95 in expenses last year! I really don't think JC is motivated by £££, whatever else his perceived faults.

I want to move to PR, coalition-based political system (mostly based on watching Borgen).

Let's get Nyborg to sort it all out!

I don't know. I can't imagine that they're finished. I mean, there has to be an opposition. Surely Libdems can't go from complete annihilation to main opposition in 1 year? (I wouldn't be against that, I'm a Libdem member! Just don't think it's credible). Agree they're in a total mess though.

I think the problem is that there are (at least) 2 such different kinds of labour voter. Most labour voters that I know are fairly stereotypically middle class, guardian readers from the affluent south east cities with a genuine heart for those in poverty or need but without much experience of it themselves. But that's a far cry from labour's traditional voting base who feel alienated and are vulnerable to UKIP rhetoric because of that. I don't know how the party aligns its members into something more cohesive.

I know the conservatives have a large 'working class' membership too but I think most conservative voters tend to want the same things. I'm not sure that's true of labour.

at the idea of Jeremy C being after money!

Corbyn will be forced to stand down

That's been tried. The parliamentary Labour Party threw all they had at trying to get him to stand down, and he appears to have weathered it. It seems the PLP understood JC would win an election if they actually carried through on their threat and so have backed down, creating this an utterly dysfunctional and divided party as a result, with no clear way out. If he's weathered all his enemies can throw at him, why would be resign now? Either the party will limp on in civil war and be annihilated at the next GE, or the grass roots will deselect hundreds of MPs, uniting the party but creating a lot of bigwigs with no jobs who'll either go off and sulk or create a new SDP.... Labour will fight the next election as a far left party and be crushed....

there has to be an opposition

Theoretically Labour can limp on as the 'official opposition' but in total disarray and broken.... But it would be crucified at the next election.

The government and politics in the UK in general seems to be one big clusterfuck at the minute.

I think JC, on the face of it, is a good labour leader however, he won't win the middle 40% of people that win elections. They need to decide if they want to form a credible government or be a strong protest party. They'll never do both under Corbyn

I'm resigned to a split, and the sooner the better. We desperately need a credible, strong opposition right now.

I'm resigned to a split, and the sooner the better. We desperately need a credible, strong opposition right now.

I think too many labour MPs are too tribal in thei loyalties for this to happen... A case of party above country, and common sense, imo.

One view of the 1980s is that each year saw the Labour party become more unelectable ...

Militant and CND spring to mind.

Maybe now is a good time for Adam Ant to tour again - maybe The Smiths will reform ? I can already sense a retro-appetite for T-Shirts saying "CHILCOTT SAYS".

Song for Europe ? "Never gonna give you up" ...

read earlier that MPs involved in the attempted coup have admitted failure

Not sure where you have got that from. It's not the case.

Watson is currently seeing the unions to see if they can mediate.

If Corbyn stays Labour will lose many many seats in a GE.

I want to move to PR, coalition-based political system

I don't. One UKIP Member of Parliament is enough thanks.

It's all about the money, Jeremy is jealous of the millions Blair is getting and he wants his piece of the pie.

LOLZ. Have you seen the car he chooses to drive?

Not convinced it's roadworthy.

Whatever else Corbyn may be, money grubbing capitalist he ain't.

I agree with manicinsomniac - the Labour party draws its support from middle class lefties (champagne socialists) and, for want of a better word, working class people (who the movement was set up to support). Currently they are losing support from working class people imo, especially to UKIP.

It will split. It has to as jc as too much support on one side and none on the other. I also dont think hes pm material which is the reason why the mps dont want him as leader. He hold on when most people would have gone which im not sure is a good or bad thing. Tbh all the parties at the present time are in a state, i include tory and libs in that. So glad we not having a general election at the moment as honestly there is no one to vote for! Its a very interesting but frightening time politics wise.... Who will rise from the ashes....... I do hope nothing major happens in the world at this time of uncertainly.

I never in a million years thought I would ever say this because I would rather stick red hot pokers in my eyeballs than vote for them, but I wish the SNP could somehow take over as the opposition right now. At least they'd be an opposition rather than this, "oh, we're facing the biggest economic and political crisis in our lifetime so why don't we go ahead and self destruct" opposition party.

I think it's very sad that we don't have a functional opposition. Maybe a split is inevitable, though it will break my father's heart - the Labour Party is like a religion for some.

JC said he wanted a new type of politics, and I tend to agree, but perhaps we need to get away from the old party baggage first.

I don't feel particularly inclined to vote for any of the main parties as they stand at present.