To ask you to settle this argument for us?

[Babysafari]

Basically me and dh have an ongoing argument about whether girls are allowed to join Beavers/Cubs/Scouts. I say they are and he says they aren't. I've been proved right today.

He wants to know why boys aren't allowed to join Rainbows/Brownies/Guides.

Can anyone explain why?

I think it's something to do with Guides being a female space similar to female only gym and swimming but I'm struggling to explain to him why it's a good thing and fair.

I think boys probably are allowed in the Brownies and it's just that no boy has ever asked to join. I can't imagine the Brownies would be allowed to say no.

Girl Guiding has a Royal Charter which stipulates it as a girls only organisation. If I remember correctly it is to do with the fact the Queen and Princess Margaret were members

Hassled we are allowed to and do say no. Legally we are a female only organisation

I think there are probably less boys who want to join brownies. Peer pressure means that girls going to scouts are tom boys and that's okay. However boys going to brownies are sissies and it's not okay. Obviously that is total bollocks but gender stereotyping gets underway at birth and most kids are too worried about being bullied to challenge it

I might be wrong, but have explained this to Rainbow DD that Girl Guiding is an international movement and there are some cultures and countries in which girls would not be able to participate if boys were present. So it is, in effect, inclusive as it enables girls to participate in the activity.

I thought that when it was put to the vote GG decided to stay female-only. Which is their right, as it it's the Scouts right to admit girls.

Please don't tell me he's getting all stroppy because females might want to keep something female only ? What a total bore.

Guides/brownies don't take boys because they don't need to -the numbers are healthy enough without

This may be a bit of folklore but I am led to believe that scouts started taking girls because they were struggling for numbers and now their numbers are healthier they can't really go back and say 'actually girls, you can't come anymore'

Guides/brownies do however take anyone that identifies as female. Men can be adult volunteers but not members

Girls are definitely allowed in Beavers, Cubs and Scouts. I was in Scouts between the ages of about 11 and 15.

Just read that that's not the issue. I've known boys in Brownies I'm sure...

Oh. It looks like GG aren't a female-only organisation. Fuck's sake.

scouts.org.uk/what-we-do/parent-faq/
absolutely yes.

Girlguiding and the Scout Association are separate organisations - same founder and ideals but they are not officially linked and both set their own policies. Some years ago the Scouts decided to go mixed - not sure whether this was due to falling numbers, demand from girls or something else. Girlguiding has considered it in the past but never felt it was necessary or beneficial.

My youngest dd has 2 bigger brothers and she loves being in an all-girl environment. She would have hated Cubs and Scouts as all they seem to do for the first half hour is run around bumping into each other.

When Baden Powell first started scouts, he started with boys. However, he noted that when groups were starting up, there were some groups which had girls in.He noted the need for something for girls to do so got his sister to start the Girl Guide movement. Back in the 90's, scouting membership was dwindling and girls wanted to be allowed to join scouts. There was a vote and the boys voted to allow girls into Scouting. In 1991 it was still optional to allow girls into groups but in 2007 it became compulsory.
Girls were able to join as Ventures from 1976.

The Scout Assosciation did have a decline in members during the 80's and 90's but is now booming and would have far more groups if they could get more leaders.

The training for adults has improved too- I was an assistant at Beavers in 1996 but left due to the poor training opportunities. I'm now an Assistant Cub Scout Leader and have had fantastic training. The opportunities for young people are also great.
Explorers (14-18yrs) are able to become young leaders and complete YL training which earns them badges, and a belt. They are then entitled to apply to join the ILM (Institute of Leadership and management) and get a certificate for £39 which is a recognised management qualification. Adult leaders who have completed their Wood Badge training are also entitled to join this scheme.

I love Scouting and am so pleased to be involved in it. It is well worth all the hard work which goes into it and I get a great sense of pride watching my Cubs go on to become Scouts and Young Leaders.

My daughter is a Beaver, she tried our local Rainbows and it was like WI for 5 year olds!!

I didn't realise boys couldn't join rainbows/brownies not sure they would want to though

Well, they can if they stick on a frock and say they're a girl, apparently . On which basis I think I'll look into Beavers for DD. Which I think she might prefer anyway.

this from Laura Bates is good on the difference between male only and female only spaces

I thought it was Baden Powells wife not sister?

Female-only spaces a very important.

That should be "are very important"

Emochild has it. Now of course the waiting list for Scouting is greater than we can cope with! Also there seemed to be a lot of Guide units at the time that were losing the more adventurous side, and Scouting seemed to offer girls that chance.

Wife is a Guider, and she is adamant that girls need a boy free space in their lives, especially at that age. From what I've seen with Scouting, boys don't seem to need a girl free space in the same way.

I have to say, having girls in a Scouting unit changes the dynamic but in a good way. Girls prepared to go into Scouting tend to be quite confident and enjoy challenges, so they can put the boys to shame, and it's surprising how many boys who don't have sisters seem to have no idea that girls are actually just human beings that you can talk to and be mates with.

I can't say whether boys would benefit from a boys only space but the girls definitely benefit from a girls only environment

The quiet ones find their voice, 'the populars' as they call each other allow themselves to be children without worrying about their hair and makeup, they talk to people they don't talk to at school because they are in the wrong clique and learn that all if them have value

As soon as we go to a mixed campsite the makeup bags come out and they spend half their time fluttering their eyelashes

My niece is now a cub leader having gone through scouting as her dad was a scout leader -she says that in her experience, women in scouting are still expected to fulfill the traditional female role in that they are much more likely to be beaver leaders than scout leaders, they do more of the cooking and organising on camp, they are more likely to be assistant leaders. Yes the girls take part in the same activities but as they get older they are not seen as equal

That is her experience only, i'm not saying that all of scouting is the same