Schools/property search

[Londonista123]

Apologies for the long post - I think I need my head wobbling, basically.

DP and I are looking to buy a "forever home", as the TV shows like to call it. We currently live in a large 2-bed ex-council flat in SE London that I own under a mortgage, but are slowly starting to think about DCs and are starting to consider our property options.

I'm getting myself into a right state about schools. (Yep, that's right, no actual children yet...) I go from thinking that our property search must be school-centred, and that whatever we buy needs to basically be across the street from a school so we don't have catchment stress later on, even if it's not a property we like, to thinking that it is nonsensical to be worrying about this now given that a) we don't know how good the school will be down the line and b) frankly all the schools around here seem good from the parents/children I've met.

How do others handle this?

Current home (which I'd like to keep and rent out if at all possible) is currently in the catchment area of a good local school, but given new-builds popping up between here and there, I'm not sure it'll stay that way.

Do we buy something that suits us, and assess schools later?

Buy something (at a premium) 0.1 miles from a school that's "always" been good and popular, on the assumption it'll stay that way?

Stay put, save for longer and buy when we're closer to needing schools?

There's nothing wrong with our current home, and frankly we could raise a family here if need be, but we're both keen to get something bigger and would like to buy while prices are within budget for us.

AIBU to be worrying about this already? Any ideas? (I'd appreciate it if those ideas aren't "Fuck off you high-earning landlording scum", please.)

Depends when you are planning children. If in the next few years then I would strongly recommend that you are at least happy with the primary school you are in catchment for. Schools do change but children grow up fast and you apply for schools when they are 3. You certainly don't want to be counting down to that hoping against hope that the failing school down the road suddenly improves.

Also, because you are in London, check your catchment very, very carefully - some homes in London are in no catchment at all, and some (Church) schools are pretty much impossible to get into unless you meet their faith criteria.

However, if you are 22 and not planning children until your mid 30s then I wouldn't worry about this at all just yet.

Thanks Barbarian. I'm 29, DP a few years older - so DCs are not such a long way off for us (as far as I'm concerned ).

I have tried to get to grips with catchment etc by going to the LA website and getting "last admitted" data. Church schools are useless to us as I'm Jewish and DP is Russian Orthodox (nominally), and it's not like there's an abundance of Jewish schools around.

Do you know roughly which area you want to be in?
I don't know of one for SE London, but a rival to mumsnet community website for SW London has a school catchment property search function on their website, so you can see what is on the market, and also which schools you'd get in. Or you can search by school and see what is on the market.

But like you said, catchments change and so do schools.

Thanks spare. We're in Brockley/Honor Oak area, and would like so far as possible to stay here because DP breaks out in proverbial hives at the prospect of Zone 3 Top-end houses in the neighbourhood are well out of our budget, but it's not completely hopeless and we don't need a super-duper house, just something with an extra bedroom and (first prize) a garden.

The Moscow Patriarchate of the Russian Orthodox Church is a member of Churches Together, so you might find that some (probably CofE) faith schools are open to you as they use that grouping rather than specific denomination. But of course a) you usually need to have priest's reference for level of attendance and b) it might change between now and time of proposed entry. As might rules on catchments, details of sibling priority or indeed any part of his criteria are set (they will have to comply with the Admissions Code, but can vary quite a lot within that).

So my inclination would be to keep looking, but to have in mind that you are playing the longer game (and saving up more whilst it's going on) and looking for a property very near one excellent school with a long standing reputation, or near several excellent/good ones.

But, as you're clearly the planning ahead type, remember that your DC will grow and that one day you'll be looking for a secondary school. It would be a little over the top to make this a major criteria (because the time lines are so long that schools could change a lot) but it might be worth checking that there are one or two with a reasonable distance/commute.

No advice on house buying, but two years ago the DCs school went into special measures, was taken over by an academy group and is now outstanding.

I think you'd be a bit daft to choose a house based on the current performance of the nearest school when you don't even have children yet.

You're "Forever home" should be where you're happy to live for the next 50 years, if you're on 29. Children will only be at school for 18 of those so do you want to live somewhere you're not happy with for 30 years once kids have gone? Lol

You're not going to have to worry about schools for at least 5 years. I'd focus on getting knocked up first. Don't count your chickens and all that.

Hi. I know the area well and if you are looking for a forever home I'd recommend trying to find somewhere close to a school. Lewisham does not have enough school places and the SE4/SE23 area is particularly bad and, from what I see with more and more parents with young kids moving into the area, it's only going to get worse. If you're not close (and I mean very close) to a school then you run the risk of being sent to somewhere else in the borough or hoping and praying for a bulge class. Even 3 form entry schools like Stillness had last admitted distances this year of less than 400m. I can't see any schools expanding permanently in the next couple of years because they are already struggling for space. You can see lots of conversations about this on the east dulwich forum and se23 forum and this booklet shows you this years distances. A number of roads in HOP are not close enough to any of the local schools, especially on the Devonshire Road side. www.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/education/schools/school-admission/applying-to-start-primary-school/Documents/AppealsApplicationsTable201516.pdf
I don't want to scaremonger but we faced this same situation and aren't close enough to actually get into any school based on this years figures, hoping next year we'll squeeze in somewhere and often things do sort themselves out through waiting list movement.
The good news is all the schools in the area are good so it's just about being close to one of them!

Thanks Auntie and others. I don't know if we'll head down the church route, but it's really useful to know.

Re planning ahead for secondary: frankly if this decision was unilateral I would be minded to buy a very small and frankly not very "forever" home in the catchment of the super-duper 3-18 school a bit further away so we don't go through further stress down the line at secondary. (Not least because I feel that while primary provision round here is great, secondary really isn't.) But the prospect of paying a lot of money for a smaller flat than we're in now, to move to an area whose only amenities are a bus depot and a brilliant school, doesn't feel right. As eveysdad said, the idea is to be there till we're wheeled out

What Toots said, definitely. V sensible to be thinking of this now!

Lewisham was 3rd worse in country for lack of school places this year. IE, people not being in catchment for their 5 closest schools & being turned down for all of them, and/or being sent to a school out of borough & 1.5 hrs travel away!

toots that is very helpful, thank you. I am absolutely up for being scaremongered now, where we're in a position to decide without pressure. I hope that your situation works out

I wish DH and I had thought about this a bit more. We bought a lovely 4 bed house two years ago which is perfect and we're very happy here but the local catchment primary is terrible. Not a factor we really considered at the time but now I'm expecting DC1 in March. After two very poor ofsted inspections the head has now been booted out and a new one put in to try and turn it around - so we're praying that it will improve over the next 3 years! If not I don't know what we'll do, I don't want to move

So I would definitely advise you to factor it into your decision.

My guess is that by the time you have to think about secondary schools, even the less good ones in the area will be better as the area changes its demographic (and sadly prices locals out of the area). I reckon a good bet will be the Prendergast ladywell fields school, the school currently requires improvement according to ofsted but is making progress and this year opened a reception class so it will be 4-18 school. By the time you have kids it might be a good option and houses that side of Blythe hill fields are much cheaper and have lovely views :)

Ps I assume you were talking about haberdasher askes. I just looked at house prices near there on right ove out of interest, wow! I never realised they were so expensive!

Pps don't tell your partner by Honor oak is zone 3

We purposely bought a house within a good catchment area for schools. But we had one dc at the time, not school age but I didn't want to move again.

It depends how soon you're going to have dc. If you don't want to move again then yes I would factor that in. For me it was top priority. We dismissed a house purely because it was near a terrible school. I know things can change but where we live the good schools have always been good. I just hope it stays that way!

Thanks toots and Jeffrey.

The Ladywell idea is interesting, and would mean we stay in the area we know and like. There seems to be a kind of mania around Haberdashers, and I'd really prefer not to engage in it.

I think that half the difficulty (other than the dire lack of school places) is that I'm in full-on crisis mode and on the verge of pinning up catchment area maps on the living room wall. DP, on the other hand, went to a shit school in Russia/the USSR (he said that even the headmaster there tried to talk him out of attending!), came out with excellent grades and thinks that "any child of ours" will do well wherever. I really don't share that view - my parents sacrificed a lot to send me to a good private school (overseas) that was the making of me, IMO.

Toots - as far as DP is concerned crofton park, HOP and surrounds are in zone 2, based on a london zoning system known only to him. I am hoping to shoehorn forest hill and Sydenham into "zone 2" too

We have a nearly two year old DC and have just moved to what we hope (although you never know what life it going to throw at you) will be our "forever home". One of the main selling points for us was that the two local schools are very good. People told us we were silly and getting ahead of ourselves for basing our property search on schools when she's not even two but I really didn't want to go through all the stress of buying a house, spend time and money doing it up and have to move a couple of years down the line. Given how stressful the process of selling our previous house and buying somewhere new has been I'm very, very glad that we factored schools so heavily into our decision as I think I'd have a breakdown if I knew I had to move again anytime soon!

OP- sure you know this but on rightmove.co.uk when you click on a particular house, under the main image is a tab called "school checker" which automatically brings up all schools in the proximity, their distance in order from house to each nearby school and also how many pupils go to that school live near your property i.e.. likely within catchment. Using this to buy our next house (have 1 small DS and am pregnant with next). Think you're being v sensible if you know for sure your next house will be your "forever house".

Thanks Peas. I really like the RM "school checker" / find it handy, but have seen others on here say that it isn't always accurate (possibly for things like faith schools, where there more to admission than proximity). So am trying to correlate this with other sources for each property.

Yes I know, but I tend to ignore the faith schools anyway as know it'd be near impossible getting in those. Others are pretty accurate, I always look up school website/feedback/council policy too.

I think you are in a good position, however, what worries me is the premium on houses in catchment, if the school goes to special measure, your house goes down too.... works both ways. Good luck, you have time and money so are in a position to keep an eye on the market, and be ready to go.

I am not in London. But we bought in 2009 without any children. Only that we might want some soon. So we picked a house in catchment of a good primary school. (It's also a feeder school to a good secondary which we are out of catchment). Fast forward now and we have just moved to a bigger home, with 1 DD already in primary. She'll stay in the primary but the new house is in catchment for the secondary.

It's never too early to plan ahead. I'd say concentrate on the primary catchment but don't lose sight on the secondary too.

Tips:
1.Don't place too much store by Ofsted's ratings.
2.Don't overlook SE6!
3.Secondary school considerations should outweigh primary.

Thanks Betty. I quite like SE6 (and guessing you do too ). I don't know Catford very well - or at all actually, and my abiding memory are those Location Location couples who want to buy in SE London and then go all catsbumface when Kirstie suggests Catford - but will wander across and get my bearings. I get the sense that it's one of those places that's very good and genuinely nice to live in, but just not "flavour of the month".

Another area that I need to "move" into Zone 2 for DP