to ask about the gender pay gap?

[FithColumnist]

This came up on another thread, where one poster baldly stated that men earn more than women. In the UK at least, to pay someone more or less for the same job just because of their gender is illegal. I am genuinely not understanding here.

Top level is usually predominantly male. Us down here, we're usually predominantly female. Men and women don't end up in the same (comparable) jobs generally.

And just because something's illegal doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It's hard to prove that pay differences are purely due to gender,even if they are.

It's a bit subtle. Basically, jobs that are normally done by women tend to be worse paid than jobs that are normally done by men.

Also men are physically incapable of having to take four weeks minimum of maternity leave. More usually six to nine months.

Posted too soon. The pro rata pay rates don't reflect these things, but as the months go by, and a second and maybe third/fourth/fifth child comes along, the birth-giving partner of a family steadily loses out.

At work I was sent a link to facebooks diversity training. It's fascinating on this topic. They quote research which shows that White men are paid/promoted based in potential while everyone else is paid on results. Therefore men get employed/ promoted more easily. Also even as low as a 1% bias in how favourably men are perceived results in men quickly dominating the higher pay grades.

Personally I have an example of this. DH and I started work for the same organisation and at the same level but 2 children later I'm several pay grades below DH despite being better qualified. Apparently as I'm part time I don't deserve promotion or at least that's what my boss says.

www.graziadaily.co.uk/2015/03/equal-pay-transparency-grazia-campaign

The vast majority of the highest earners are men : company directors, senior City workers, senior professionals, sportsmen etc etc.

This top 1-2% of the income distribution earn many, many multiples of the average wage which skews the overall figures significantly. The gap is not so large for men and women in 'normal' jobs, but there is still a gap.

Most places I've worked have a strict policy of not disclosing pay, so they can shaft everyone, but mostly the women. This is what you get when workers rights are weak.

I see it all the time, but as a PP said it's very hard to prove it's purely down to gender. They will just think of another reason for why there is a pay difference.

I'd be much more in favour of actual equal pay for equal work, with maybe a slight banding for experience/ exceptional circumstances. So lets say an X is paid £20k per annum, but allow £1k either side.

Mind you, my work still managed to get around this by simply calling me a different varient of my job when I returned from maternity leave, even though it was exactly the same job .

The pay gap is there because it's women who usually take long gaps for children. Even if the father becomes a sahp the women will generally take at least 6 months mat leave. Usually longer.

Unfortunately most companies don't value part time staff of any gender and it's much more difdicult to get progression in a part time role. Again this tends to be women who work part time. Sometimes roles do need to be full time and job share isn't appropriate, but I have seen many people passed over for roles they could do because they are part time.

Tbh I don't know the solution. Because I am sure there is gender equality. But until there is the same amount of men who are sahps it's difficult to pinpoint and tackle.

Personally My pay didn't suffer. I took 6 months off for each child and returned full time. Dh worked a job that enabled us to work it so one of us was always at home. My career carried on as before. But within 3 years I had had enough of never seeing dh and the kids at the same time and was exhausted, so I jacked it in and went freelance, took a pay cut but life quality went up.

YY to all of the above. There are many subtle and less subtle factors that influence this. Another one is that men tend to be more likely to push for things like promotions and pay rises, so men and women at the same level in the same company often end up on different salaries. It's a complicated issue at many different levels.

There are many excellent reports into the causes and impacts of this. The Fawcett Society gives a good succinct sum-up: www.fawcettsociety.org.uk/our-work/campaigns/gender-pay-gap

I'm afraid the Fawcett Society does NOT produce excellent reports on this subject. Their data is manipulated and sewed to support their agenda. That is not a sound use of statistics.

According to a report today since 2006 women in their 20s are out-earning men. This is not actually a new trend, and it is one gender pay gap that is growing.

Woman, on average, start earning less when the very obvious happens. To suggest that taking one or more career breaks and usually returning to work part time should not affect earnings is nonsense and is economically illiterate.

Fawcett ignore experience, seniority and hours worked in their analyses, which overlooks key elements of people's earning capacity.

www.theguardian.com/money/2015/aug/29/women-in-20s-earn-more-men-same-age-study-finds

"Most places I've worked have a strict policy of not disclosing pay, so they can shaft everyone, but mostly the women."

The Equality Act 2010 makes it unlawful to prevent employees from having discussions to establish if there are differences in pay. However, an employer can require their employees to keep pay rates confidential from people outside of the workplace. - From ACAS www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1811

So why is there so much hesitation in asking a colleague what they get paid/bonus received? Anyone help?

Sorry, i didn't just mean Fawcett Society reports, I mean reports by World Economic Forum, McKinsey, EY, PwC and many more credible organisations. Perhaps Fawcett Society was a bad example.

I have read that men are more likely to negotiate higher wages. So thats part of it, in addition to what others are saying.