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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

There is surely no way this can be considered reasonable...

26 replies

chelle792 · 11/07/2015 08:35

Just found out that I'm pregnant. OH will not be entitled to paternity pay. This seems bonkers! The only reason is that he is self employed - he pays taxes yet isn't entitled to paternity pay.

Surely this isn't fair?

OP posts:
Keepingsecrecy · 11/07/2015 08:36

Part of being self employed

Frostedloop · 11/07/2015 08:37

It may not be fair but you are correct, self employed men are not entitled to any form of paternity leave. It only applies to employees with employment contracts.

The UK, land of equality..

CrohnicallyAspie · 11/07/2015 08:37

Isn't maternity/paternity pay paid by the employer? So logically your OH would have to pay it to himself?

LilyMayViolet · 11/07/2015 08:38

I can totally understand why this has annoyed you and it is hard but I always thought being self employed meant that you weren't eligible for sickness pay or maternity/paternity pay.

Frostedloop · 11/07/2015 08:39

No statutory maternity pay comes from the state via NI contributions, paternity pay however does not.

Keepingsecrecy - So self-employed men have to put up with this but self-employed women can claim statutory maternity pay and that's fair?

Frostedloop · 11/07/2015 08:41

LilyMayViolet - If you pay NI contributions you can get maternity pay from the government.

Official guidance:

you’re self-employed and pay Class 2 National Insurance (including Voluntary National Insurance) for at least 13 of the 66 weeks before your baby’s due - the amount of Maternity Allowance you get depends on how much Class 2 National Insurance you’ve paid.

However if you're a man, tough even if you contributed.

DontOpenDeadInside · 11/07/2015 08:41

Im sure if a woman is self employed, and pays national insurance contributions she can still get maternity allowance? Why should it matter if its a father rather than a mother?

frikadela01 · 11/07/2015 08:42

Paternity pay is a joke even with an employment contract. My dp got all excited about shared parental leave coming in until I explained that if we split it I still get my pretty decent maternity package yet his pay would be statutory minimum so we couldn't afford it... its so unfair.

soapboxqueen · 11/07/2015 08:50

I suspect the difference has to do with the fact paternity leave isn't a necessity while women taking maternity leave have to take at least 2 weeks leave and have actually given birth.

There are many differences for self employed people and this is just one of them.

You can always write to your MP about it.

Damnautocorrect · 11/07/2015 08:55

Yep it sucks, (mine was back at work a few hours after Id had my first) but that's how it is for self employed. he does have the benefit of 9 months notice though, to put away a few quid to cover a week or so of being off though.

NellysKnickers · 11/07/2015 08:58

Yes its shit but it's the way it is. DH is self employed and no paternity leave at all for two babies. Nothing you can do about it. Now stop stressing and enjoy your pregnancy Grin

Original poster
chelle792 · 11/07/2015 08:59

soapbox I've just done so. Smile I even quoted some facts and figures Wink 15% of the work force in 2014 were self employed, etc, etc.

Surely it's just another way of diminishing the rights of fathers?

Unfortunately keeping there seem to be many disadvantages of being self employed at the moment.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining too massively. It just doesn't seem right somehow. We've never asked for anything from the government in our lives... Confused

OP posts:
Original poster
chelle792 · 11/07/2015 09:00

damn you're exactly right. We shall start saving now.

Nelly I'm not stressing Smile just highlighting an issue. Haha, it's funny, since I've found out about the pregnancy I've become all zen or something I will not be stressed Grin

OP posts:
QforCucumber · 11/07/2015 09:00

Dp is self employed this will be the same for us so the plan is now to save enough to cover him having 2 weeks off, more if we can. As long as the bills are covered in that 2 weeks so he can spend it with me and baby then everything else can wait. I agree it's not fair though - self employed woman can have maternity allowance but man doesn't get a penny yet he still pays class 2 and 4 national insurance

confusedandemployed · 11/07/2015 09:06

I wouldn't be surprised if statutory paternity pay does come in in the next few years and WRT to shared parental leave, I'd be willing to bet my pension that there will be lots and lots of discrimination claims relating to inequalities in maternity and shared parentalparental pay, so that fairly soon companies will be required to consolidate them.
However don't get too excited: that just means that companies will abolish enhanced mat pay and just offer statutory for both...

HermioneWeasley · 11/07/2015 09:12

Huge tax advantages to being self employed though

soapboxqueen · 11/07/2015 09:20

It's hardly diminishing the rights of fathers if it was never an option in the first place. It's not equal, but then neither is leave for fathers in employment. Afaik it is the employers who pay paternity pay so technically your husband has to pay himself.

Essentially what you are asking for its a state benefit for self employed fathers. I'm sure many small businesses would feel they needed this support too so it would end up being quiet costly. I don't think considering this week's budget and the difficulty many families are going to find themselves in, that there will be much call for money to be spent specifically on this.

sharonthewaspandthewineywall · 11/07/2015 09:39

Yep mine has never had any for our two. Luckily they (and our next one) have been December babies so he is off at Christmas anyway

Original poster
chelle792 · 11/07/2015 09:52

soapbox I agree with you about the cuts. It's not exactly going to be a priority.

I didn't realise that business paid rather than state for paternity pay. That's another issue in itself - it's worrying the strain that small businesses are going to be under with the new budget. Paternity is another thing for them to pay to their employees (I'm thinking of OH who will sometimes not go to work in quiet times just so he can keep the young lad he employees in a job)

OP posts:
soapboxqueen · 11/07/2015 11:32

I've just checked, companies can recoup the costs for statutory paternity pay in the same way as statutory maternity pay.

I suspect it comes down to leave for fathers is seen as nice to have while for mothers it is a necessity at least initially. Do self employed adoptive mothers get smp? They do if employed.

DoJo · 11/07/2015 11:36

Huge tax advantages to being self employed though

Not really if you're a sole trader, unless the OP's husband trades through a limited company...

LilyMayViolet · 11/07/2015 11:42

That IS unfair! How sexist. Thank you for informing me.

Original poster
chelle792 · 11/07/2015 20:58

I'm entitled to maternity allowance rather than maternity pay (as I'm self employed too). I don't know the ins and outs of that yet but it's better than a kick in the teeth Smile

dojo OH is a sole trader. We have fun and games with the bank about mortgages and the like

OP posts:
notquitehuman · 11/07/2015 21:07

Oh the joys of being self employed. I was considering adopting a child, and found out I can't get any form of adoption leave. If I got pregnant, I'd get maternity allowance, but it seems there are just massive loopholes in all sorts of areas.

NinkyNonkers · 11/07/2015 21:39

I think it is just that women actually give birth and physically need time to recover. As such they get basic cover to allow for that whereas physically men 'need' no time. I agree it seems unfair and would be a good thing, but it isn't a necessity in the same way that it is for women.