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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think Christians shouldn't exploit misfortune to evangelise

39 replies

ShootPeppaPig · 26/04/2015 15:48

Hacked off.

Having a pretty shit time.

"Well you know where you can turn if you need a miracle ..."

Actually no, I don't. I don't believe therefore turning to some god I don't believe in is not going to solve all my problems. But thank you friend for suggesting that I would not be in such an unfortunate situation if I merely did ask your "God" to work a miracle... Is he not the same one who allowed this in the first place in your eyes? To humble me or something like that?

OP posts:

DoraGora · 26/04/2015 15:57

We Christians are brilliant at singing, wrapping food parcels and even have quite a few groups doing foreign aid work. School report A++

But, the theological sense of God's infinite wisdom, nature and mankind's trials to test our faith and whether Jesus dying on the cross helps my breast cancer or not, well, that bit, in my view is D-, must try harder.

I'm a practising Christian because I believe in the Church. Theology makes no sense to me, whatsoever.

morethanpotatoprints · 26/04/2015 15:58

No, YANBU.

I am a believer but would never try to rope people in who don't believe and if not sure you keep it to yourself.
Sorry you are having such a rough time.

Would you object to somebody saying they would pray for you?
Not that I'm offering btw, just interested.
I know you wouldn't believe anything if somebody told you a good result was because they had prayed for you, obviously.
Hope things get better for you soon

Original poster

ShootPeppaPig · 26/04/2015 16:04

I think it depends really morethan, I have a lot of friends who are Christians and there's the genuine "I'll pray for you" which is kind and no more harmful to me than someone thinking positive thoughts in a way that works for them

And then there's the "I'll pray for you" which means "I disagree with choices you make and pity you" - that's the one I take offence to, I hear it most commonly used towards lgbt people I know (to frame the context)

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DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 26/04/2015 16:06

I like the singing and ritual. I'd rejoin tomorrow if they'd give up on the sex thing.

As for theology, I find no difficulty in believing in both the Hawking no-boundary singularity universe AND Heaven. Heaven is like the Auvergne, but with velociraptors.

morethanpotatoprints · 26/04/2015 16:09

I don't think the latter is very nice tbh and not a reason I would pray for anybody.
I know your thread is about religion but if you want a none religious moan or rant to get it off your chest I know Mnetters are a great support.
Oh, and they are your choices to make, so if people don't agree it's their fault, as long as you haven't murdered anyone. We'd all have to disagree with that one.

Toadinthehole · 26/04/2015 22:46

It was an insensitive remark, and so I'll give a technical YANBU on your thread title.

But the vast, vast majority of us are not given to making remarks like that.

Shallishanti · 26/04/2015 22:51

No, YANBU, but in fairness I don't think it's a typical remark from a Christian- they are many and varied so chances are some will be bigoted/idiots/tactless etc....just like anyone else

MrsTerryPratchett · 27/04/2015 01:36

It all depends on the Christian. I had one do as you say, when someone close to me died. I raged at another Christian (friend) about it and he took it on himself to deal with the first person and make sure she got the memo not to do it again. Depends on the person.

MrsBojingles · 27/04/2015 08:15

If they are deliberately preying on misfortune of course YANBU. However I think most the time we are just saying something to try to help in what we know is a shit situation. To be fair, I wouldn't have said what your friend said, it sounds rather patronising- but maybe tell her that? She probably just wants to help.

Sorry you're having a shit time, hope it looks up soon

anonacfr · 27/04/2015 10:57

I thought the thread was about the horrible American pastor who made a comment about Nepal and them not rebuilding their pagan shrines...

I know what you mean though. My parents are v Catholic. I am dealing with an lifetime medical condition for my son that means no chance of an independent life for him. One shitty day when I was telling mother that surprisingly I was coping with shitty day better than expected she told me it was because God had sent me the 'State of Grace' to help me deal with my trials.

I told her I'd rather he'd not sent me trials in the first place. Then changed the subject. It was not mentioned again.

JoffreyBaratheon · 27/04/2015 11:12

My ex did the Alpha Course and apparently that is the panacea to every problem. Did him no good in court though, when his dodgy church pals appeared as character witnesses. (Usher whispered to me "They look like Jehovah's Witnesses!") Judge thought the same. I think evangelising religion is often the last resort of the absolute charlatan and crook, trying to cover their own crimes - or else it attracts people with serious issues who'd be better off getting more practical help.

If they believe in their god then he did all the bad things in the world and he is responsible for them (cos it's always a 'he', eh?) If he could do miracles, why would he do bad stuff in the first place?

It's also an abnegation of responsibilty for their own actions or unaccountable feelings, that makes people turn to this charlatanism. I'd say to your friend look deeper into your own soul. Because you're the one who needs help.

TooManyMochas · 27/04/2015 11:16

I think its important not to assume the worst of Christians or other theists just because you happen to disagree with them. Lots of Christians have passed through very tough times in their own lives and have genuinely found their faith a huge source of strength and encouragement. You don't think it would be of any help to you - fair enough - but don't assume it hasn't genuinely helped them. Yes some of them could be much more sensitive in talking about it, but by and large they aren't setting out to "exploit misfortune to evangelise".

JoffreyBaratheon · 27/04/2015 11:23

My three closest friends, two are christians (C of E and RC) and one a buddhist. None of these people evangelise. I'd make a distinction between people of any faith who evangelise and the (presumably) vast majority who don't.

sparechange · 27/04/2015 11:33

I have some evangelical christians in my extended family (not to be confused with common-or-garden C of E) and I have to pick conversation topics carefully, to avoid them finding a way to shoehorn their sales pitch into conversation.

Evangelism transcends both common sense and manners when it comes to twisting a subject to become a opportunity to tell you what your life is missing.
It is truly the Forever Living of religions...

OfaFrenchMind · 27/04/2015 12:52

I remember my catholic mother raising her hackles like an angry cat (but mercifully staying moderate) when a fellow school mom, who was an active evangelist, suggested we all prayed together in front of the house of a sick school friend's mom. Who was not christian at all.
In the end, my mom said to just bring in food, had a chat with the ailing mother about anything but god and sickness, forbid any religious talks and confiscated the pamphlets. The evangelist mother was really frustrated :)

Original poster

ShootPeppaPig · 27/04/2015 20:17

It may not be a remark from some types of Christian but I grew up in an evangelical cult church myself and it was certainly exactly how I was taught to evangelise... Of course the word exploit was not used but the idea to offer God as the solution to any problem you could get someone to share.

I left the church. Friend is still there.

I only realised how hurtful it is when they did it to me yesterday firsthand I suppose

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APlaceOnTheCouch · 27/04/2015 20:25

I think it's a bit unfair to tar all Christians with the same brush tbh. My church wasn't at all evangelical and I've never heard anyone make a comment like your friend did.

I can understand why it annoyed and upset you. But her response doesn't seem very Christian to me. From it's lack of empathy to its apparent belief that you can order miracles from God - I don't recognise those attitudes in any Christians that I know.

saoirse31 · 27/04/2015 20:29

And I suppose while it's clearly tactless, rude etc but you could look on it as them doing their best, albeit in their eyes only, for you!

Seriouslyffs · 27/04/2015 20:33

YANBU
I'm Christian. Today I wrote a card to someone who's suffered the most unimaginable losses and I just didn't know what to write. Of course I'll pray for her but to wrap it up in a 'Wahey- let's fix this!' phrase just seemed crass.

SquirmOfEels · 27/04/2015 20:40

I think YABU to lump all Christians together in the thread title.

BackforGood · 27/04/2015 20:46

I too think YABU to lump all Christians together based on this - quite frankly - rather weird comment, which I can't envisage anyone in my Church making.

TwoOddSocks · 27/04/2015 20:53

I agree that it totally depends. I'm a pretty staunch atheist and I've had people say they'll "pray for me" on a few occasions when my dad was terminally ill. In some cases I found it genuinely touching as it was their way of saying that they genuinely cared enough to devote some time and emotional energy in a way they believed would help. In other cases I just felt they couldn't be bothered to think of anything meaningful to say and there was a certain smugness that they had the power to change things in a way I didn't.

I think the same applies to suggesting you "seek salvation" or whatever. If they genuinely think that a) you might seriously consider becoming christian and b) this would be helpful for you, then even if they're misguided it was a thoughtful gesture. If on the other hand they just think that their way of thinking is right and yours is wrong and they insist on making this point while you're having a hard time it's incredibly irritating.

TwoOddSocks · 27/04/2015 20:56

Also was anyone else reminded of that Alan Partridge episode?

Alan: I wasn't expecting that, Lynn. That was a negative, and right now I need two positives. One to cancel out the negative and another one, you know, just so I can have a positive. Oh my God.

Lynn: You know, one can find some strength, when you're at your bleakest moment, if you open yourself up to new choices…

Alan: Lynn I'm not coming to your baptist church! They always get people when they're down. I don't want salvation, I just want to be able to say "I'm Alan Partridge. Join me tonight when my guests will be,"

Original poster

ShootPeppaPig · 27/04/2015 20:57

I am referring to evangelical Christians... Because as far as I know they're the only ones who evangelise

I'm honestly surprised at the people who claim to never have heard anyone speak like that because it's really really commonplace amongst evangelical Christians that I know (and I grew up in a church with thousands of members in the UK)

I can totally believe other sects of christianity don't use this method... But then I wasn't referring to them anyhow since they don't seek to evangelise...

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Imustgodowntotheseaagain · 27/04/2015 21:12

Strictly speaking, all Christians are evangelists, because Jesus told us to go and make disciples of all people. It is a prosyletising religion (don't think I've spelt that right). But some do so with sensitivity and some do so with a sledgehammer.

Sorry you are having a hard time.

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