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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel bad that I lost the cleaner work?

31 replies

Summerbreezer · 03/02/2015 15:38

I use an app on my iphone to book a cleaner. It is quick, easy and I can use it as and when rather than committing to a certain time.

Anyway, I ordered a cleaner for 8am last Saturday. I know it is early, but I had to go out. She was 25 minutes late and didn't provide an explanation.

I was asked for feedback by the company. Because of the way the app works, you have to provide feedback on your previous cleaner before booking another one.

I dithered for a while before deciding I would alert them to the fact she hadn't been on time. I have just had a message saying she has been removed from their register as their cleaners need to be punctual.

AIBU to feel a bit guilty? I didn't mean for her to lose her place entirely, but felt it was legitimate to raise it with the company! Should I email them and ask that she is given another chance?

OP posts:
Nomama · 03/02/2015 15:42

Nope. Half an hour(ish) late is not acceptable. Apart from making her employer look bad, how would she have made up that time if she had had another appt shortly after yours?

They have clear rules, obviously. Let them deal with their staff as they see fit and finally, you did not do this, she did, in being late. Worry not, keep using the app!

splodgeses · 03/02/2015 15:45

fwiw, I think YANBU to feel bad, however, I don't think the company would have sacked her for one grievance in timekeeping.
If she genuinely had a reason, she would most likely have been profusely slrry and explained she got lost/missed bus/had a poorly dc etc.
As you said that feedback HAS to be provided after each cleaning service, you will likely find that she has received more than just your negative comments regarding her punctuality.
If however, you believe she did a good job and the service you received was beyond your expectations (to make up for the lateness with no explanation) then go ahead and email the company.

LadyLuck10 · 03/02/2015 15:53

I would have asked her why she was late tbh. You were honest though and since she came in almost half hour late without explaining that was very unprofessional on her part.

weeblueberry · 03/02/2015 16:00

Its unlikely she's been fired over one late appointment. She's more likely to be chronically tardy and they've taken note of it.

DurpDurp · 03/02/2015 16:02

YANBU

5dogsgoswimming · 03/02/2015 16:04

I think she's probably been late before

MessyHair9 · 03/02/2015 16:05

It can't be the first late can it?

What's the name of the app btw!? I want a one off cleaner for before my friend comes to visit me.

notonyourninny · 03/02/2015 16:07

Ooo whats the appcalled?

Yanbu

MrsTawdry · 03/02/2015 16:25

YABU without asking her why she was late. She could have suffered a family illness or anything.

PtolemysNeedle · 03/02/2015 16:29

YABU to feel guilty. The service you chose to use requires you to give feedback and that's what you did. It would have been unreasonable to lie, even by omission.

It is not your place to email and ask that she be given another chance. Someone is trying to run a business here, why should they potentially lose other customers to ease your guilt?

Lady1d · 03/02/2015 20:11

Nope- I used a similar app and when I didn't complain the first time it became a habit and my cleaner was consistently late

Original poster
Summerbreezer · 03/02/2015 20:23

Thanks all - you are all right of course.

The app is called Handy. They have a website too and you get money off the first clean - definitely worth it.

I think I have slight issues about having a cleaner at all - as if someone else shouldn't clear up my mess. Obviously I know that is ridiculous but may be part of my reticence.

OP posts:
Original poster
Summerbreezer · 03/02/2015 20:24

Also, I should say I didn't ask her for her reason for being late because I was in such a rush! Presumably she would have had the opportunity to explain it to the company.

Plus, her clean wasn't great. I could have done it - and with a professional cleaner, I expect something well outside my very limited cleaning abilities.

OP posts:
Pipbin · 03/02/2015 20:30

Summer I completely understand why you feel bad for this cleaner having lost her job. However as others have said it's unlikely that this was her first offence.

Other than that - don't feel bad for having a cleaner. You pay for a takeaway because you can be bothered to cook, you buy a coffee in a coffee shop because they make a better coffee than you. Why not pay for a cleaner?

ZenNudist · 03/02/2015 20:33

I find cleaners don't do as thorough a job as you'd do yourself but they cover everything in a relatively short time which helps you stay on top of your house if you like me don't have lots of time to clean.

Handy don't sound like they're very good to their employees if it's the UK arm of this US company

Original poster
Summerbreezer · 03/02/2015 20:43

Thanks, Pip - you are right of course. It is definitely my issue (or my mothers!)

That article is interesting, Zen. I always expected the cleaner to be some form of freelance contractor rather than an employee, but then aren't most home cleaners self employed? (Possible ignorance here). Surely the cleaner derives the added benefit of flexibility.

The cleaners I have had have always been in their own clothes, I have told them to make tea, use the radio or whatever.

I am not sure that paragraph 45 is too onerous to be honest. Isn't the majority of it basic customer care skills?

My cleaners have never worked longer than they are scheduled to. Obviously I cannot comment on whether they have got breaks etc.

It is an interesting debate, anyway.

OP posts:
DisgraceToTheYChromosome · 03/02/2015 23:49

They're getting a right kicking on Trustpilot.

Usernamegone · 04/02/2015 07:22

Boo have tried Handy and Bizby but none of them cover my area!

fromparistoberlin73 · 04/02/2015 08:05

I am a bit so so about handy. Firstly when you pay them only ten per hour means cleaner gets barely anything

Secondly I also had a no show and it was a stress to re arrange to say the least , and an hour early

Maybe it was same woman !!?

BallsforEarrings · 04/02/2015 08:06

I've got to fly but this doesn't sound like a legal set-up, if the cleaners are truly self-employed then they can set their own hours and clean when it suits them, they cannot lose their job over doing so.

If they are employed by the company you would know because the company would have to be charging at least £14 per hour (at the tightest profit margins possible) more like £15 and that jumps to £18 per hour if it is a big company having to charge out VAT on top.

If it's cheaper than that she is self employed and they are an agency - they have no level of control over how she does her work and when, they cannot equip her or train her - they cannot sack her for setting her own hours!

Lightheartedindeed · 04/02/2015 08:14

I wonder if it is a standard reply to poor reviews? It may be that they have not fired her at all but will make a note not to send her to you again. I might be overthinking this Confused

atticusclaw · 04/02/2015 08:22

That's simply not correct Balls My cleaner charges £10.50 an hour. Its a legitimate company. The cleaners get £7.75 an hour and the company takes 2.75. NMW is £6.50 an hour. So its perfectly possible that she was employed.

And of course the cleaners can lose their place with the company if they're self employed. If I sign up to do consultancy work through an agency and I'm completely useless and unreliable they can say "sorry no thanks we don't want you anymore because you let down our clients" and that's it, I'm gone. I can't just turn up whenever it suits me.

You've misunderstood various snippets of the law and put them together to create a false picture I'm afraid.

BallsforEarrings · 04/02/2015 08:37

Yes atticus I agree - they CAN lose their place but they ARE able to set their own hours as self-employed individuals, we are a cleaning company and we do not work to appointment but that is our agreement with the clients, our employees have to work to our time-frames because we are not an agency, however our particular business model is not hourly we give 'time-windows' of arrival.

The organisation you describe IS a legal operation but it IS definitely an agency rather than a private company if the cleaners are paid seperately and if it is an agency the cleaners ARE self-employed, this is not illegal but it means the company has very little legal control over the service level the cleaners put out.

I would LOVE to run an agency as our prices could be cheaper and margins less tight, we would not have employment costs and VAT would not loom close for a long time ,however, having looked into both business models before I set up, I decided against it as we are a premium service and that has to be fully managed therefore costly to operate but client satisfaction is very high as we have the level of control we need to deliver excellent service.

We would be richer as an agency for sure and clients would pay less but we need to actually employ the staff to have the control to train and equip them to deliver excellence.

An agency is more of a 'match-making' business model than offering a set service level, therefore very variable in standards.

Really gotta go now so bye for now!

atticusclaw · 04/02/2015 08:44

Not correct I'm afraid, sorry. Unless I am completely misunderstanding your post. I'm an employment lawyer and I deal with this stuff day in day out. Anyway this is derailing the thread.

BallsforEarrings · 04/02/2015 09:00

atticus - i am seriously interested in this (but so late so really going off now!)

This is how HMRC explain it to us within the cleaning industry however if there are any loopholes you know about whereby you can control self-employed staff to fit your service level i NEED to know, I am not joking you have me exited here, can you tell me more I will be back later! This could save my company and my clients so much money, if there is a way round this and also I would be able to advise others in the industry of this as we are all thinking this is the case at the moment!

Seriously, I would start an agency if what you are saying is legal and correct and I can verify with HMRC!

Sorry to de-rail OP - need this info!