to ask whether you are "patriotic"

[textingdisaster]

and what that word means to you?

Tristram Hunt (on Newsnight yesterday and in the context of the Emily Thornberry tweet) said: "we should also be very clear that we are hugely in favour in the Labour Party of people expressing pride in their national identity and national symbols."

So I am wondering what "national identity" and "national symbols" and "expressing pride in them" (or not) mean to different people...

I am patriotic about two countries (where I come from and where I live), not from the uk, in the sense that I love the people and feel a loyalty to the people, not the flag, not the national anthem and not the government. And not to the exclusion of other peoples, just in the sense that I feel I should act to defend these people if they/we are attacked and I am proud of their/our qualities and history, but not in a chauvinist sense.

I am hugely patriotic. I love my country and do feel a bit of a tingle when I use the liberty my foremothers fought for. One of the things I use it for is to criticise it and explore its history openly and in context as a tiny island in a small continent on a modest-sized planet. I reserve the right to criticise the roads that nationalism leads us down. What I don't do, I hope, is sneer at other people who express patriotism differently.

Not really. Why should I be proud about something I have no choice in? I am British because I happened to be born here, pure chance.

I've only become aware of my national identity (as a German) when I moved abroad. I've never felt that German before I did. But it's not pride, it's more of a sense of belonging. Over the course of a decade I feel I have acquired some kind of Britishness (including nationality), but don't think I could ever become fully English. It's hard to explain. But basically I'm inbetween,cI 'be got two national identities and at the same time none.

As for symbols - the region I'm from, and its symbols/dialect/stories feel much more important to me than my country's.

I am grateful that I'm British rather than proud - feel very lucky to be born and to live in England, despite its many faults. Don't feel need to fly the flag and think our national anthem needs changing to something more uplifting I don't feel a sense of national identity with beer bellied, tattooed people or Tory toffs or even the people in my village.

That's an interesting point, Widow. I lived in France for a couple of years and it was only when I was there that I felt "English". I wouldn't say it was pride more an awareness. But back in the UK I never think about it.

Technically I'm Scottish I suppose as my parents are Scottish and I lived in Glasgow until I was 13. But English, Scottish - whatever. It makes no difference. I'm ME before I am anything else.

why the fuck is this in AIBU?

Can't say I am particularly.

I am Scottish and our recent referendum has put me right off patriotism - it does not bring out the best in people.

Yeah, I'm really proud of a country that demonises the poor, disabled and those on benefits, denies a vulnerable woman the luxury of a panic room and laugh about it, and transfer public funds to private hands. What's not to love?

Like Widow I'm an emigrant, and that does make me more aware of how English I am. I'm also aware that I'm gradually becoming slightly Canadian too, and that's something I'm quite happy with. I am grateful to have been born in a country that has a lot going for it, and grateful that another country with a lot going for it let me (us) in. I'm also aware of the history and faults of both countries. I'm proud in the sense that if anyone asked me I'd say I was English, and I'd not feel ashamed of it, but I'm not rah rah about it either.

National symbols I am very ambivalent about because of growing up through the 70s and being aware that a lot of patriotism/nationalism has a very dark and nasty side. This means I am comfortable with Union Jack bunting for example way more than other types of flag waving. One is associated (for me) with street parties and the other with street riots.

A yes vote in the referendum was not about patriotism. It was political.

I'm sure there are no voters out there who are extremely patriotic.

I'm very fond of this country, and I learnt to appreciate its many strengths when living overseas. There are some aspects of our culture that make me proud. It is my home.

However, I recognise our country's many weaknesses, and I acknowledge its chequered history. I am not under the illusion that Britain is "better" than other countries. And I despise nationalism in all its forms.

I think England is a great country to live in, but I wouldn't say I'm particularly patriotic.

You are however BU for posting this in AIBU for traffic purposes.

I enjoy being British. I think I'm lucky to be British. I enjoy supporting British sports teams.

But I reserve pride for things which I've actually achieved. A random accident of birth isn't an achievement.

No. I don't get it - I like where I live and I'm attached due to memories but im sure id be the same anywhere.

I'm only considered of this nation because by pure chance my mothers body happened to be there when I exited it .

There's a difference between Patriotism and Nationalism. I'm very patriotic. Everyone was in the late forties, fifties and even the sixties, in the sense of being proud of and loyal to our country. Round our way most of us were in the Guides/Scouts etc and were taught the significance of the Union flag, the National Anthem and the Monarchy etc. There was still a lingering sense of 'Empire' and 'Colonialism' (sorry but it's true), and my grandfather fought in WW1, my father in WW2, during which patriotism was fiercely encouraged.

However, times are changing and the world is shrinking. Nationalism is divisive and aggressive. I feel drawn to all the peoples of the world. While still loving the UK and being proud to be British, I'm very mindful that to achieve world peace we have to see the planet as our joint home and regard everyone on it equally with respect and love.

I used to think my country was the greatest country in world and the greatest people when I was young. Now many years later and having lived in several very different countries - I'm not very patriotic or nationalist at all. I do now realise that we are very lucky to be born and live in the UK though and the UK has a bloody lot going for it. Pisses me off when you always hear people totally slating it. We are very privileged.

I am patriotic and feel quite strongly about it. I have no idea why, and no explanation for it.

I am patriotic and very proud to be Irish. ( despite it's faults as another poster said about their own Country ). I don't feel that makes me think my own country is better than others or others are better than mine - in fact I understand that people feel that way about their own Country.

Like others have said I don't see why I should feel proud that I happened to be born in the UK - Other people may have made a choice to move here and worked to get here, gained British citizenship etc but I'm just here by chance so what have I got to be proud of? I don't support British sports teams etc.

I feel connected to my local area - which is somewhere I chose to move to and somewhere I am part of the community and contribute towards but I don't feel connected to the wider country.

As well as not seeing the sense in patriotism, I think it could also be something to do with how the country is promoted and what generally patriotism is linked to - which is sports teams, royalty, right-wing politics etc rather than things I care about such as the NHS.

I'm Irish living in the UK. DH is English, but very much a northerner first and an Englishman second . We're settled here entirely for pragmatic reasons. I'd be lying if I said I felt any particular attachment to England or Britain. Its just where I happen to live, with its good points and bad points. I suppose I'm a good citizen in that I keep the laws, pay taxes (although not currently as I'm SAHPing) and try to contribute to wider society through volunteering and charitable giving. I assume the DCs will grow up to feel English and I've no problem with that. I very much feel Irish, but for me country is like family - you can love your family without thinking they're necessarily any better than anyone else's.

Yes, I suppose I am. I love castles and tea-parties, and all the other English quirks. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.

Having said that, I am also a hugely irritating plastic paddy despite never having been to Ireland.

Yes I am patriotic. I am proud to be from the UK. I dont do it without questioning certain elements though. I dont think everything is perfect, far from it. But I experience much more kindness and consideration than in my resident country. And much much better music.

not especially - I'm more proud to be from Merseyside than I am to be from the UK

I have a fondness for my roots in Ireland and Wales but I don't fly flags or drink green beer

I like the UK but I'm not especially proud of my mum giving birth here - it just happened that way - it doesn't make me special

I've lived abroad and I like Germany a bit more but I still like Merseyside best

Patriotic though - no not so much