WIBU to tell my staff ....

[JustSayNoNoNo]

... to just turn up when they feel like it, and to ignore conventional start and finish times, their annual leave allowance, the multiple policies covering special leave, compassionate leave, family emergencies etc, and to just tell the salaries people how many hours they worked each month?

I'm tired of reiterating the rules, guidelines and policies, like some jobsworth. The policies are generous as it is, and I am flexible with staff on a case by case basis, but people are pushing at the boundaries. Meantime, we have services to provide and I believe it's only respectful to your colleagues to turn up each day, and do a day's work.

(Yes there's a back story. No I'm not sharing; it would out me.)

I think I'd also be reiterating the Disciplinary procedures. It sounds like they are taking the piss.

That sounds like a great idea, if they were only paid for the hours they actually worked I'm guessing they'd turn up more.

Bet you're not allowed and are expected to 'manage' them for that extra 50p a week

If they are taking the piss you need to be firm.
It's not being a jobsworth at all. Are you the owner of the business or the boss?
If so you need to remind them of the rules during a set meeting you arrange and inform them of the penalties.
So however mins late you dock an hours pay, its what the factories do.

Unfortunately, what would probably happen is that you are the one who gets it in the neck as their manager!

I feel your pain. I have a team of 35 who also push the boundaries of an already flexible and generous policy and management style. Unfortunately I think it was the flexibility and generosity given in the first place which has got us in to this situation.

Also previous poster correct, management will get it in the neck! If you find a solution do let me know....

Hmm, I was thinking it would show a bold and innovative management style.

I'm all for bold and innovative but I can't see it working with people already taking the mick. They will probably rub their hands together with glee and have a lay in each morning (well mine would).

Total flexitime. Every day's a duvet day, if you like. I don't care why you are not in - your budgie died, you have a hangover, you forgot to put petrol in the car, the sun is out. But you only get paid for being in the office. I'll need twice as many staff (at a guess) but the cost will be the same overall. What's not to like?

Please don't tell me this is illegal, you'll spoil my fantasy.

Aren't Virgin and Netflix already operating this policy?

So it's obviously a great idea then! I thought theirs only applied to holidays though? My idea includes allowing staff to start late, leave early, take a 3 hour lunch: anything they like really, no explanations needed.

Jesus! Just read that Netflix policy - I'm surprised there's ever anyone in the office. Although it explains why it takes 45 mins to get through to someone at Virgin. They're all on holiday obviously

One of my friends from uni works for a startup that has no fixed holiday time or start/finish times etc. It sounds all lovely, but they are all salaried and have signed away their 40 hours weeks, so the reality is that they all feel immense pressure not to take the holiday they probably would if they were at a comapny with normal policies and they all work 60+ hour weeks on average. I think it absolves the company of the responsibility to manage people and work loads properly. My friend loves it though.

Netflix were lovely when I called them. Do you think that is why?

There was something in the news fairly recently about a big global company that does this - can't remember which - possibly Virgin.

I think It's a great idea in principle, as long as you have enough staff & they all value the company as much as they value their other commitments.

Oops - Virgin - yes!

Meh. Jobs are shit, by and large. You can't blame people for preferring to be at home. I rather admire pisstakers like this. Wish I was brave enough to join them.

Imagine the logistics of planning staff cover to get the work done if you don't know who is coming in to work when

Unfortunately, unless they are salaried you pay holidays as a percentage of time worked. Sorry.

Most catering operations to have some level of casual/hourly paid staff which necessitates a certain amount of flexibility. For most people it works, some better than others but there are a few it really doesn't. IME you would have the same problem in a different form.

Under your new light touch system the same people who are pushing boundaries now will constantly complain that they're not paid enough, work too much and don't get enough paid holiday. They will require you to show your working as to how little they are paid and when they don't like that question your procedures.

At that point they will come up with the solution that they need to be paid more and will ask for a payrise and more responsibility. When that, obviously, doesn't work they will then try and game the system. In the lead up to a holiday (which will be at least 4-8 weeks long because flights are expensive) they will attempt to work 60-90 hours a week to ensure it's paid and complain about overwork. If you let them go over their holiday allowance they will leave and then get legal advice when you take the money off their final pay (in accordance with their contract).

You are also annoyed constantly at working to cover gaps when NOONE is there because the aforementioned people don't turn up or are on some kind of 'work to rule' because of their grievances.

In the meantime there are nice good, honest people working away and picking up their slack and getting angry at you for letting them get away with it.

Virgin really doesn't work like this They have, in theory, unlimited, paid leave - but it's only a small group and they discuss it with each other, look at projects on the go etc. PLANNED not ad hoc

OP lots and lots of Is it really worth the extra tuppence you get paid? Time to change jobs? < yeah, they're pretty much all shit, but hey, it's different shit and more pay!

And good luck over christmas.

You need to start providing some consequences to staff who breach policies/ regulations.

Your policies should state how failure to comply with the rules/policies will be managed. If not, you can start by taking an informal approach for minor issues (eg a conversation about lateness to include exploring the reasons for lateness, expectation that punctuality improves and will be monitored plus a warning that the consequence of further lateness will be formal management under the disciplinary process. Conversation should be documented, copy to employee, copy to their HR file.)

For serious breaches, skip straight to the formal discip process.

Once your staff see there are consequences, most of them will stop taking the piss.

youmedancing - oh, you've burst my bubble . I was just enjoying the fantasy of not having to battle with staff trying to steal an hour here and there thinking I won't notice.

You seem incredibly knowledgeable about the pitfalls - is this from experience, or are you just a natural catastrophiser? (I'm sure you are absolutely right BTW).

Chipping Cheers!

Sorry. It's an amalgamation of years of experience dealing with staff with no fixed shifts which could be similar to your proposal if I wanted my life to be awful. It can actually be worse than I described but halloween was last week. It only ever ends one way and is usually a bit of a shock to the person involved. You know, because we're so flexible.

I thought it sounded like bitter experience! Looks like I'll have to continue policing the time off then [bah humbug].

Would you expect them to provide proof of hours worked?

If not, do you have any vacancies? :D