to not understand where the money has gone?

[Mitchy1nge]

once upon a time we were propping up nationalised industries, the NHS hadn't been privatised by stealth and we poured loads of money into huge inland construction projects, motorways and so on

we no longer spend public funds on such things so where does it all go these days?

Europe? Pensions? Benefits? Not me that's for sure ;-)

I was wondering about pensions, civil servants and their pensions.

Labour bankrupting us for the second time in living memory? paying off debts? You cant keep shelling out when there is nothing coming in

2013

Pensions: 139bn
Healthcare: 125bn
Education 38bn
Defence 42bn
Welfare (of which unemployment 6bn) 62bn
Protection (police/fire etc) 15bn
Transport 9.2bn
Gen Government 9bn
Debt Interest 47bn

Total spending: 675bn
Total debt: 1189bn

www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/

wow thanks

I conclude IWBU to not look that up for myself

but I was right about pensions

that's fucked up though, what a big slice of the pie!

To the banks!

Same here in Mexico, in the 1960s, Mexico hardly had any oil industry or national debt, and they managed to build some major infrastructural projects, now the country has loads of oil and the government is borrowing ever more and they still can hardly afford to repair the infrastructure, let alone build more.

you should claim Texas back and any other rebellious territories with lots of petrochemical plants?

am not going to feel sorry for Mexico, it's got chia seeds, the tarahumara, drugs, mariarchi bands etc

and tamales

It is the cost of an ageing population that lives longer. 10% of the UKs GDP is currently spent on benefits, 7% of this is on State Pensions. There are over 12 million State Pensioners and the figure is rising - which is why the State Pension Age is being increased and changes were announced in the budget to try and reduce the expenditure.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-expenditure-and-caseload-tables-2013

That's not civil service pensions is it, it's state pensions?

I was thinking of when civil servants used to get that lifetime allowance pension type thing

Wow debt interest is a big chunk...I can see why getting that down is a priority, with that gone there'd be a lot more to save/use on useful things.

Yes, that's state pensions, not the supposedly gold plated civil service ones.

speaking as a civil servant who got a letter today saying i now have to contribute over8% to my non-final salary pension, you should know that they have now reformed the civil service pension scheme.

What is a 'lifetime allowance pension type thing'?

The cost of public sector pensions is dwarfed by the cost of the state pension. That's risen hugely because we're all living longer.

Healthcare costs loads more now than it did in the 1960s and 1970s. We have better treatments, equipment and drugs, but it costs.

Housing benefit costs a fortune, because rents and house prices are high.

Yep the 139bn is all the pensions for everyone who claims the state pension (ie every pensioner); civil service pensions are a tiny amount and not exactly going to bankrupt the country. I'm surprised defence isn't bigger tbh

Can't believe the debt interest payment is 3 times what is spent on fire/police etc. Pretty shocking.

This chart is very interesting pensions was only split out in the data from the mid 80's but it shows the way welfare has shrunk as pension costs have risen...

Capitalism. The money is funnelled to multinationals who spend outside of the country, any profits are creamed off the top while the milk gets thinner and thinner

I thought it used to be the case that people could leave the civil service or retire relatively young and enjoy a generous pension/allowance for the whole of the rest of their lives

am sure that has changed though

and obviously it doesn't add up to the millions and billions I was imagining

Ageing population who live with diseases which were once a death sentence is certainly one reason for the NHS struggling.

I guess medical advances generally: people surviving dreadful accidents with brain injuries and being born extremely early with very complicated and expensive needs - stuff that even a few decades ago would not be possible

Yeah. I have often wondered if the state pension should be means tested like other benefits. I would loose it most probably...but I would be okay with that if it facilitated spending in others areas a such as education.

I guess that the present government might want to head that way anyway (means testing) given the workplace pension scheme.

Interest isn't as big a worry as the number looks. Experts only start to worry when it hits 12% of national GDP. We are still a long way off, but have been closer...

Who holds the debt notes is the real question...

The money has largely gone to Saudi, and also to China.