Strip club!

[everythinghappensforareason]

So dh has been kicked out back to his Mothers following a night out Saturday, that ended at a strip club, not only that but also paying for a lap dance from a young girl in nothing but a thong. Ive never been so mad, there was 3 of them. It makes me feel sick, he has apologised + claimed he didn't enjoy it one bit, it was worse than he imagined etc. but i just feel like people around me ( his family) Probably think im over reacting, so my question is, what would u do?

[Charbon]

racheal there are lots of men who wouldn't be seen dead in one of these clubs. It is not the performers who are at fault, but the men who purchase their services and the men who run the industry. Please don't believe the propaganda that this is something all men do. They do not.

[evansthebread]

Apart from all the hurt this is clearly causing to some, what about the money spent?

As someone who relied on her ex to support her for a while (job loss), I would be fuming if someone who grudged paying for a meal out for us went and blew money like that on "other" women!

Having said that, I never did work out how much he spent on porno mags (way before the internet, here). I think I was too shocked at finding three 4 foot high piles in "his" shed! At a fiver a throw he must have spent a fortune.

I get upset reading how upset this causes others to get. I really wish the weaker, easily led blokes would man up and tell their friends to sod off. I worked in a male-oriented industry for many years and saw the same "macho" blokes pushing others, and others giving in just not to look "under the thumb" (apparently THE worst thing that could happen to a bloke according to macho types!).

It all boils down to having respect for the person you love. Is your bloke clueless, a wimp or just plain does not care enough? I ended up having zero respect for my ex (and that was before the "find") and would actively look to do things that would piss him off. The only thing I learned from this behaviour was how true cutting your nose off to spite you face is. Oh, and that I was, and still am, relieved to be shot of him.

I'd hate to say to others, yes, dump him, and for it to be the wrong thing. But for those who really can't live with this behaviour, you have to make him see exactly what it is he's done to you. You cannot let anyone get away with making you feel like this when they do not understand or trivialise why.

Don't let anyone, partner or people here, make you feel like your feelings are irrelevant. It took me years of therapy to realise that my feelings are mine and just as valid as anyone else's.

Good luck to anyone struggling with a partner who has hurt them and are at a crossroads.

PS Sorry if this is rambly - I know it's never a good idea to post after a glass of wine. I just couldn't stop myself!

[bp300]

SabrinaMulhollandJjones Thu 04-Apr-13 01:19:20
bp - is it just a stag night thing with you, or do you go on other nights out?

Do you think that a stag night wouldn't possibly be the same without the naked ladies?

You say you've been on 10yrs worth of stag nights, so I'm you're - what, in your 30's? Are you married?

Do you think your life would be disadvantaged if you never went to strip clubs?

You don't have to answer those, of course, I'm just interested.
___
It's pretty much just a stag do thing I wouldn't go to a strip club on a night out. There have also been 2 times I have been to a strip club on work related nights out where a client has purchased a dance for me. It does make the stag do more enjoyable than a standard night out which I guess the reason that it is so common.
I am in my 30s, not married but obviously have had a few girlfriends over that 10 year period. I have to admit this thread has been an eye opener for me as to how strongly some women feel about them so If i was in a relationship with someone in future and they were strongly against them then I would probably just avoid the stag dos altogether,

[Charbon]

It would be great if you were strongly against these clubs bp.

Lots of men are. Some admittedly because they realise they are also being exploited by unscrupulous club owners whose business model is built around the punters' stupidity and sexual incontinence, but some because they have a political conscience and can see the inequality and misogyny evident in the sex industry. It's impossible to ignore once you start digging below the surface of this industry.

[bp300]

Charbon Sun 07-Apr-13 01:23:48
It would be great if you were strongly against these clubs bp.

Lots of men are. Some admittedly because they realise they are also being exploited by unscrupulous club owners whose business model is built around the punters' stupidity and sexual incontinence, but some because they have a political conscience and can see the inequality and misogyny evident in the sex industry. It's impossible to ignore once you start digging below the surface of this industry.

I don't know anything about the business models of the strip club owners so can't comment on that. I don't really see any inequality though I think if a lot of men had the chance of earning a days wage stripping in front of women for about 15 minutes work they would jump at the chance.

[Charbon]

It's impossible to equate male stripping with female stripping because of the imbalance in power between the sexes. Also, men who strip and dance for a living get an appearance fee whereas women dancers have to pay to book their spot and must make their money from being booked for private dances. If a punter doesn't book them for any, they are in debit to the club owner.

[bp300]

I am talking about like for like though. If men could have the same terms as the women stripper a lot of them would take it. I appreciate like for like doesn't exist but if it did I think a lot of men would take it up.

[Charbon]

But you can't contrast something with another entity that doesn't exist and that includes a society where men and women have equal power.

If there were a truly equal society and not a patriarchy, all sorts of behaviour and cultures would change dramatically and there would be less behaviour that was due to gendered socialisation rather than individuals' personalities. If society were truly equal, people's motivations to seek one type of work in preference to another would change for both sexes.

[bp300]

I leave it up to people to decide for themselves what they want to do for work if it they decide to work in a strip club that's up them. There is obviously a demand for people wanting to work in them and wanting to go to them so I personally have no problem with them and i'm pretty sure most men feel the same.

[Charbon]

I don't think just because there is a demand for something makes its provision acceptable but as I'm sure you're aware from economics, supply creates demand in capitalist societies. As I'm also sure you're aware of the politics around Choice and what makes some choices freely made and others coerced, because of circumstances. Fortunately, most of the men I live and work with don't feel the same as you.

[Tolly81]

Really? There being a demand for something makes it ok bp300? There is a demand for arms in Libya and I think I could make a great wage by selling them. Hey - I won't be using them so it's ok! I'm just serving the demand! That way I don't actually have to think about the morality or otherwise of what I'm doing, right?
Of course there are strippers who do it out of choice and view it as nice work if you can get it. But you are being utterly ridiculous if you think that this is the case for the majority of women in the industry. Huge numbers of women are trafficked. Someone's daughter has been taken abroad for a better life/more opportunities by a "friend of the family" usually as a teenager of about 15. When she arrives in the UK she is groomed and controlled and by 17 she's working as a stripper - if she's lucky. But these people are just serving a demand so it's all good. Do you have any children bp300? Do you have any daughters?

[bp300]

The women working in these clubs are mainly British so no chance they were trafficked i'm pretty sure they were there out of choice and I can't blame them wanting to work there as they are making lots of money.
Comparing it to selling arms in Lybia is ridiculous, It's a transaction between 2 people who who are both happy with the terms so I don't see any problem with it. No I don't have any daughters but if I did there are plenty of jobs that I would prefer she didn't do but ultimately what job she does would be up to her.

[Verbalpunchbag]

Charbon, you say you can't equate male stripping with female stripping because they get paid in different ways? They are both taking there clothes off for money for money frankly I think your hypocrisy is staggering.

[Charbon]

No it's not just about the different forms of payment, atrociously unequal though that is. I said that you can't find equivalance between male and female sexual performance when there is patriarchy.

There is an obvious inequality if a male dancer is guaranteed a performance fee regardless of who wants to see his act, but a female dancer is required to start her working day in debit and can only earn money by personally touting her services to individual customers.

Personally, I find an inability to acknowledge this starkly obvious inequality staggering, but I suspect you also don't know very much about the business models of these clubs and didn't realise that women have to pay the owners to rent their spot. It's obvious that many people fail to realise this because of the amount of ridiculous 'what about the menz strippers?' posts these threads attract.

[Verbalpunchbag]

If taking your clothes off for money is demeaning and objectifies the performer that surely applies to men as equally as it applies to women. There is no comparison between the different way they get paid because men don't usually strip in strip clubs, they are booked through an agency and paid up front.

[racheael76]

my husband told me girls approach men in these places asking them for a private dance after chatting and making them feel flattened and at ease. he did tell me at the time a lot of the girls who worked there told him they were at university and there to pay there fees/debts.i wonder if there mother knows. not sure if this is true though if the posts are right above its very worrying if girls are trafficked.

[MrsBombastic]

I think some people need to get some perspective!

OP what he id was NOT the same as cheating (FGS) he obviously enjoyed it, that's why he did it and TBH it's the same as looking at porn IMO just in 3D!

No, that does not make it ok and yes you were totally right to go ape shit on him, I would not have kicked him out though.

Kicking partners out is a last resort and should only be done if it's permanant. Or you run the risk he either won't come back or he will do something even more stupid in retaliation.

I would have read him the riot act, made him sleep on the sofa for a week and not washed his clothes or showed him any niceness for a week and make it clear that should it happen again there really will be repercussions.

I suggest you get him home and implement this.

Food for thought, why don't you and your girlfriends book a night to see The Dreamboys, it will help you get some perspective AND get your own back...

[MrsBombastic]

P.s

I LOVE the Dreamboys and Magic Mike.... am I cheating on my hubby? Pfffffttt!

[ChairmanWow]

I would have read him the riot act, made him sleep on the sofa for a week and not washed his clothes or showed him any niceness for a week and make it clear that should it happen again there really will be repercussions.

^ This, then this:

I LOVE the Dreamboys and Magic Mike.... am I cheating on my hubby? Pfffffttt!

If I were your husband I'd tell you to sod off. I agree that male and female strippers can't be compared because of wider inequalities but this massively smacks of double standards.

[Verbalpunchbag]

Chairman, Because male and female strippers work in different types of venue they are paid differently so they can't be compared? So you have no moral objection to stripping?

[pinkhalf]

As a woman who has spent a lot of time in strip clubs (clothes on, working professionally) there is no limit to the variety of men that attend them. Really it comes doen to money. If you have plenty of it then that no touching rule or arms length stuff is rubbish.

They are crummy places, with crummy people in them. I will never forget the faces of the punters when I turned up. Really, a lot of them looked worried or embarrassed. Their excuses... funny. I didn't care why they were there.

The owners are hard as nails with a pathetic line in treating women like a princess. There is normally some older woman around the back who acts as a mother figure to the young women that strip. It is depressing stuff. Everyone except the owner is exploited, and they make the good money.

I have heard it all - but basically its exploitation. And it ruins relationships. The ones that survive, well, they either lie to each other or to themselves.

[countrykitten]

What a great post pinkhalf. Sad too though. Exploitation that ruins relationships just about sums up what I feel about these clubs too.

MrsBombastic you have made yourself sound ridiculous on this thread. It is also really pathetic that you go and watch male strippers and also nullifies your going 'apeshit' if your dh went to a stripper.

Read pinkhalf's post as she seems to know the business well and understands the man that go there and the conditions the strippers work in. Perhaps a few of the men posting on here could learn something too.

[Charbon]

Verbal Punchbag I think you misunderstand my posts - I hope not willfully.

To be clear, I would rather stick pins in my eyes than attend a male striptease event. On a political level, it is no more edifying to sexually objectify men than it is women and on a personal level, this would be my idea of personal hell on a night out.

However, there are political reasons why the two cannot compare in terms of the damage caused by this objectification, as there are political reasons why male dancers are booked through an agency and get an appearance fee and women dancers are not. There is also no comparison between what happens in an intimate personal dance and a group of men performing a striptease dance routine from the safe confines of a stage.

I think posters who think this is nothing need to go back to what this thread was about; private lap dancing. If posters wouldn't be happy with their partner attending a private party where some of the guests performed a lap dance for their partners, resulting in sexual titillation and (often) orgasm, then why does it make a difference if payment is made?

[BumbleBee2011]

It's interesting all these ladies who are "putting themselves through university"...I mean they're hardly going to say "actually I have low self esteem and am being exploited because I have no choice". How many of these men then ask to see their matriculation cards? Or ID to make sure they're not underage?

Nice little lie to try and make everyone involved feel more legit, I'd say.

[Verbalpunchbag]

Charbon, you might imagine that men strip on the safe confines of a stage and no touching takes place but I think you'll find the reality is very different. Stripping is either wrong or it isn't, splitting hairs over the way people get paid is a pretty poor argument.