Strip club!

[everythinghappensforareason]

So dh has been kicked out back to his Mothers following a night out Saturday, that ended at a strip club, not only that but also paying for a lap dance from a young girl in nothing but a thong. Ive never been so mad, there was 3 of them. It makes me feel sick, he has apologised + claimed he didn't enjoy it one bit, it was worse than he imagined etc. but i just feel like people around me ( his family) Probably think im over reacting, so my question is, what would u do?

[runningforthebusinheels]

Gah another typo.

*You upset them

[runningforthebusinheels]

Oh you are, Basil. You bring upset them

[BasilBabyEater]

I sincerely hope I'm the sort of person who gives this site the bad reputation it has with the legions of the feeble-minded

[runningforthebusinheels]

*here

[runningforthebusinheels]

verbal - basil is a very knowledgeable poster on her (and I believe elsewhere). Anyone that's given more than a cursory glance at the feminist section knows this.

I think her point is that you are wilfully misunderstanding/ or unable to understand the other posters explanations here, and so there is little point in her typing it all out again, for you to fail to understand again.

[Verbalpunchbag]

Very droll basil, just out of interest are you capable of adding anything to the debate? Or can you only manage your rather lame attempt at humour? I thought not, I can see why you like it here, you can tackle such thorny issues as to which nappies are best and discuss deep philosophical concepts such as what to do about nappy rash, all with your smug, self-satisfied, condescending tone, which must be a delight for the other members. Your attitude was just what I suspected I'd encounter when I came on here and I suspect your the type of person who gives this site the bad name it has.

Cue childish sarcastic reply......yawn.

[BasilBabyEater]

No verbal, that's far too simple minded - this is Mumsnet, not Top Gear.

I'm sorry, I just don't think you're quite able to grasp it and people have tried to explain the concept to you in the easiest way they know how, but I just don't think you're capable of understanding nuance.

Sorry, have you tried a site with a ticker and people calling each other Hun at the drop of a hat? You might feel more at home there, the ideas expressed might be a bit simpler.

[rustybusty]

pinkhalf thats just your opinion and your views on sex. I havr done sex work and dont see th big deal, but dont see sex as a big issue or a moral thing. Everyone doesnt think the same.

[Verbalpunchbag]

Basil are you trying to tell me in your condescending tone that false equivalence means men are to blame and women are blameless? I think it's you that needs to do some reading.

[Sunnywithshowers]

Excellent post pinkhalf

[pinkhalf]

Look. Being a stripper, pole dancer, lap dancer, purveyor of erotic entertainments, whatever you like to call it, is crummy and degrading.

The reason is that it is fake. It is done for money.

Lots of us have different views about sex and whats acceptable to us. Paying for it, supporting the sex industry, is crummy. The buyer is a bum. The dancer is cheapened. The happy tart is a great myth, she exists for as long as the punter has the cash.

Women are capable of sexual chauvinism just like men. Society does not support it as it does men. Going to clubs like these is a choice that is easily avoided. There is never just going in and having a drink. If it were like that, clubs would never make any money.

The structure of male stripping is very different. One man and lots of wjomen. It's an inverted compliment to the man. His fantasy is plenty of women. The woman who is working in a strip club is imagining being at home, with her clothes on.

I know that because that's what they told me. They hated the men that attended.

[BasilBabyEater]

Look verbalpunchbag, if you can't grasp the concept of false equivalence, then this debate is rather going to go over your head because you're intellectually out of your depth. The cry of "hypocrite!" just sounds childish and uninformed in this context. You need to go away and do some reading because the adults are talking now and can't be bothered to keep on trying to explain to the wayward pupil who doesn't want to listen because it's not cool.

[Verbalpunchbag]

Charbn, I can only assume then that I'm right, men are at fault and absolutely no women are at fault for their part in the sex industry. Hypocritical.

[Charbon]

Although calling someone is a hypocrite is of course a personal attack, please can I ask that no-one reports that post? I would generally prefer such posts to stand so that other posters can make up their minds whether to engage with that poster again.

I won't be doing so.

[Verbalpunchbag]

Sabrina, Charbon is a hypocrite. She/he offers no criticism of women who willingly strip for money, or any other women who work in that part of the sex industry from female owners or managers of strip clubs to bar staff etc, who are all contributing to the sexual objectification of women as you put it. Charbon offers no criticism of women who pay men to strip for them either because you can't equate male and female stripping because of false equivalence, the only objection is to men paying women to strip. How is that not hypocritical?

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

I'll just repeat that I don't think seeing male strippers is ok - I think it's a pretty seedy business tbh.

But males in society are not having their actual status or standing in society affected by the existence of the Dreamboys etc in the same way that women, as a group, have their status affected by the existence of lap dancing clubs and the rest of the sex industry.

Women are the victims of the vast majority of sexual crimes, from low level sexual harassment on the street to violent sexual assault. Men can be victims too - but rarely are women the perpetrators.

This makes a difference to the arguments about strippers.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

The false equivalence argument is that men and women are not equal in society (yet ) and so cannot be compared as 'like with like.'

Strip clubs are part of the sex industry which encourages the sexual objectification of women are the idea that women are always sexually available to men - not human beings of equal status to men.

This all feeds into the way women are treated in society - it's all part of a continuum which ends with your wife/daughter/niece etc having her arse groped in a bar by a stranger.

Now - the false equivalent bit - male strippers are a relatively recent phenomenon (and are most certainly not ok in my book.) But they came about as the women "turning the tables" on the men. This is "funny" to some people. And probably explains why some of the women that go to see male strippers act so er... outrageously?

[Verbalpunchbag]

im not arguing, I'm trying to understand your logic, you say you you can't equate male stripping to female stripping because some female strippers in some venues get paid differently? I just think that's double standards, especially as females tend to get paid more than males.

[Charbon]

Quite Basil.

If you're still hard of understanding Verbal re-read some of the posts on this thread and others. I'm at a loss to explain this any more clearly to you and can only conclude that you're either willfully misunderstanding or you genuinely don't understand the nuances about false equivalence. If you're interested in learning more about it, educate yourself. If you're just looking for an argument, take it elsewhere and not on a woman's support thread.

[BasilBabyEater]

Are we back to the false equivalence argument?

How dull

[Verbalpunchbag]

Charbon, you might imagine that men strip on the safe confines of a stage and no touching takes place but I think you'll find the reality is very different. Stripping is either wrong or it isn't, splitting hairs over the way people get paid is a pretty poor argument.

[BumbleBee2011]

It's interesting all these ladies who are "putting themselves through university"...I mean they're hardly going to say "actually I have low self esteem and am being exploited because I have no choice". How many of these men then ask to see their matriculation cards? Or ID to make sure they're not underage?

Nice little lie to try and make everyone involved feel more legit, I'd say.

[Charbon]

Verbal Punchbag I think you misunderstand my posts - I hope not willfully.

To be clear, I would rather stick pins in my eyes than attend a male striptease event. On a political level, it is no more edifying to sexually objectify men than it is women and on a personal level, this would be my idea of personal hell on a night out.

However, there are political reasons why the two cannot compare in terms of the damage caused by this objectification, as there are political reasons why male dancers are booked through an agency and get an appearance fee and women dancers are not. There is also no comparison between what happens in an intimate personal dance and a group of men performing a striptease dance routine from the safe confines of a stage.

I think posters who think this is nothing need to go back to what this thread was about; private lap dancing. If posters wouldn't be happy with their partner attending a private party where some of the guests performed a lap dance for their partners, resulting in sexual titillation and (often) orgasm, then why does it make a difference if payment is made?

[countrykitten]

What a great post pinkhalf. Sad too though. Exploitation that ruins relationships just about sums up what I feel about these clubs too.

MrsBombastic you have made yourself sound ridiculous on this thread. It is also really pathetic that you go and watch male strippers and also nullifies your going 'apeshit' if your dh went to a stripper.

Read pinkhalf's post as she seems to know the business well and understands the man that go there and the conditions the strippers work in. Perhaps a few of the men posting on here could learn something too.

[pinkhalf]

As a woman who has spent a lot of time in strip clubs (clothes on, working professionally) there is no limit to the variety of men that attend them. Really it comes doen to money. If you have plenty of it then that no touching rule or arms length stuff is rubbish.

They are crummy places, with crummy people in them. I will never forget the faces of the punters when I turned up. Really, a lot of them looked worried or embarrassed. Their excuses... funny. I didn't care why they were there.

The owners are hard as nails with a pathetic line in treating women like a princess. There is normally some older woman around the back who acts as a mother figure to the young women that strip. It is depressing stuff. Everyone except the owner is exploited, and they make the good money.

I have heard it all - but basically its exploitation. And it ruins relationships. The ones that survive, well, they either lie to each other or to themselves.