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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To expect a fair police investigation

24 replies

wonderwoman2012 · 14/02/2013 23:30

Can anyone expect the police to investigate fairly if the interviewing police officer says "If he is not innocent why did he ask for a solicitor when arrested"???

OP posts:

gordyslovesheep · 14/02/2013 23:31

context?

DeepPurple · 14/02/2013 23:32

In my experience, those that ask for a solicitor are usually guilty

I'm sure the police will investigate fairly. That is their job!

cricketballs · 14/02/2013 23:34

isn't that an interviewing technique to get a witness to question their statement rather than thinking that the police will not investigate fully?

Original poster

wonderwoman2012 · 14/02/2013 23:36

who knows if a technique or not but if the law states you can have legal help should the police tell witnesses that means someone is guilty?

OP posts:

LineRunner · 14/02/2013 23:36

Who did the Police officer say it to?

It surely isn't part of either side's case, is it?

PomBearWithAnOFRS · 14/02/2013 23:37

Going on my own personal experiences over the years, it rather depends on who the arestee is and how well known to those particular police officers they are. And what sort of a mood the police were in at the time of the arrest, and afterwards. And if they can be arsed, and what their recent clear up rate has been, and how many unsolved incidents they can tick off the books if they can get someone to admit to them and have them taken into account with something else, and how loudly their bosses are breathing down their necks...

gordyslovesheep · 14/02/2013 23:38

CONTEXT?

Original poster

wonderwoman2012 · 15/02/2013 00:02

Historic sexual assault on a child (30 plus years ago)

First time arrested 60 year old man

Said to me a member of his family because I dared to question the how the investigation was being carried out. I asked why they had not talked to his wife as she was around at the time.

OP posts:

quoteunquote · 15/02/2013 00:25

Well the police investigate and gather evidence, then it is decided if there is enough to build a case with.

so I'm not sure what you mean when you say fairly, they can only find the evidence, and present it,

Anyone not pleading guilty, in child abuse situations, when they know they are, are unbelievably despicable.

as for the police officer's reaction, they tend to be behavioural experts.

DreamingOfTheMaldives · 15/02/2013 08:23

Quoteunquote - yes, the police are meant to investigate which includes looking into witnesses and explanations put forward by the defence, not just the ones where they think they can find evidence against him.

Behavioural experts????!!!! No, they're really not.

I advise anyone and everyone I know to ALWAYS ask for a solicitor if they are arrested for anything (not that it has ever happened). People may like to think that only the guilty get arrested but I'm sure the likes of Barry George and Stefan Kizko would argue otherwise.

And seeing as the OP has mentioned someone being arrested for sex offences and you have already said people who are guilty of offences of that type and deny them are despicable tends to show what conclusion you have already reaches without being aware of one single solitary piece of information about the case, other than he has been arrested!

DreamingOfTheMaldives · 15/02/2013 08:28

Wonder Woman - if your relative is interviewed again for this matter the solicitor can ask (during interview so it is recorded) for the police to follow up certain lines of enquiry including speaking to his wife. Knowing it is recorded on the interview tape is much more likely to focus the officer's minds.

BrandiBroke · 15/02/2013 08:59

I hope they don't always assume that only guilty people ask for solicitors.

My husband was arrested recently for something which he honestly hasn't done (they're investigating him because someone he thought was a good friend has done it) and when they asked whether he wanted legal representation he said he didn't really know as he'd never been arrested before, but he took it.

I personally think the police are being really heavy handed about our situation and I can't wait for the day he's proven innocent. I bet we don't get an apology.

ratspeaker · 15/02/2013 10:30

So a member of someone's family has said to you that they were told that's what a police officer said?
The family member may have their own slant on things and hear whats said in a certain way.
The wife may be interviewed yet

Also what dreaming said

aldiwhore · 15/02/2013 11:12

Common sense dictates that if you are arrested for anything, ask for a solicitor, guilty or innocent.

These assumptions are dangerous and unprofessional.

In my experience, those that ask for a solicitor are usually guilty Utter bollocks. In MY experience! [passiveaggressivesmiley]

Crinkle77 · 15/02/2013 11:29

YABU for suggesting that those who ask for a solicitor are usually guilty. A solicitor will ensure that correct procedures are followed and advise on any legal issues which the ordinary man on the street may not be aware of.

Original poster

wonderwoman2012 · 15/02/2013 13:17

Crinkle77 - my view on this is the same as you.

I know if I was ever arrested I would want a lawyer. Having never been arrested I would not no what is right legally.

The police have failed to question my relative again. He they arranged to see him four times over a 8 month period. Each time his lawyer got a phone call the day before to cancel appointment. Then just after the Savile thing broke they phoned lawyer and said they were charging him.

So only ever spoken to him on arrest!!

The tape of the interview has still not been handed over despite disclosed of evidence happening weeks ago.

Can the case go ahead if they never hand over the recording?
Anyone know?
Why would they not want to give the defense the tape?
Just stalling?

OP posts:

Booyhoo · 15/02/2013 13:26

if the interviewing police officer says "If he is not innocent why did he ask for a solicitor when arrested"???

do you mean if he is not guilty why did he ask for a solicitor when arrested?

Original poster

wonderwoman2012 · 15/02/2013 13:36

You are right!!!

Can't believe I wrote that so wrong. Thanks

OP posts:

andubelievedthat · 15/02/2013 13:44

From experience(sadly) if arrested tell the arresting officer your name ,age and date of birth , ask for a solicitor , say absolutely nothing else ,if you are bang to rights the police will not waste their time talking to you (why should they?) if they are attempting to engage you in "conversation " they are fishing for additional information re whatever you have been charged with,Being charged with an offence is merely that >a charge ,only the courts can find you guilty/not guilty, a solicitor is essential, he/she exist to help you in a very frightening situation.Anything a police officer says ,post arrest is of little interest, and best ignored. my arrest offence/trial ?>£3000 later (mine) not guilty ,arresting officer(s) did not even bother to turn up at court to give evidence.

worldgonecrazy · 15/02/2013 14:03

YANBU to expect a fair police investigation. Whether you get one depends on an awful lot of things.

It sounds perfectly sensible to me to ask for a solicitor, whatever the charge. Police are there to gather evidence and investigate crimes. However, my (limited) experience is that it is up to the person who has been charged and the solicitor to actually gather evidence for presentation to the CPS. The police tend to make up their minds fairly early on and work on whatever their "gut instinct" tells them is the verdict.

Original poster

wonderwoman2012 · 15/02/2013 14:10

I had a conversation with the DC's DS after she upset me such that I sent an email to the police station saying "I would help them in anyway possible but would not have contact with her again. If they needed any further information from me then I would be only speak to a different member of there team.

DS spent the whole conversation repeating she was not fishing, she was not fishing. At the time I had no idea what this meant. Had to ask someone once I got off phone.

He is a middle classed man that has worked for everything he has so of course no legal aid. Plus with the resent legal funding changes no refund of costs if found not guilty. You only get refund if use over worked legal aid lawyers who are not specials in these complex cases.

Lawyers reckon more and more innocent people are just pleading guilty to crimes so they just pay the £700 costs that occur. Madness

OP posts:

Original poster

wonderwoman2012 · 15/02/2013 14:17

After the evidence that we have handed over being used to change victim statement dates etc

We have been told very firmly by lawyers that in historic cases you never present to cps. We would love to hand over everything now but they would just change witness statement??

To make this go away would be a dream but if she lies in court she goes to prison.

Lawyers say that there is more than enough evidence of her twisting the truth but the safe option is to put evidence to a judge in court.

OP posts:

worldgonecrazy · 15/02/2013 14:28

This organisation may be able to help you. They can recommend solicitors who specialise in dealing with false allegations. It's not the cheapest option but worth it if you can get the money together.

DreamingOfTheMaldives · 15/02/2013 22:04

Wonder Woman - solicitors with a legal aid contract are THE most experienced solicitors for this type of case as they deal with them day in day out. You will probably find that the solicitor who is conducting the case privately also does legal aid work.

He may not be eligible for legal aid at the Magistrstes court but if the case goes to Crown court he will be eligible as everyone is. He may however have to make a contribution, which would be refunded in full if found not guilty.

If paying privately and found not guilty, his fees would be refunded but only in part - they are refunded at the old legal aid rates, £45 per hour I think.

The solicitor needs to apply to the police station for the tape of interview - it is not served automatically by the prosecution. The prosecution will serve a transcript of it.

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