To ask for outside help???

[mojomojo3488]

hi there i have just joined and would really appreciate any advice on how to get a social worker & how having a social worker could help me etc.. i am in turmoil over asking for this kind of help as ive heard so many bad stories about the involvement of social workers, being a stuggling single mum the idea scares me to be honest but i desperatley need help from somewhere as
i am litterally at the end of my tether and do not know where else to turn with coping with my 8yr old son who is at the moment in a pru unit due to several mainstream school exclusions, he is being assessed for a statement and has had involvement from refferals to cahmms (three times they have closed the case saying there is nothing they can do for me) i disagree with lots of issues the pru unit put forward as they are inclined to say (in not so many words!!) that my sons behaviour is down to bad parenting!or another favourite saying of theirs is "its learnt behaviour" (from who is what i would love to know) even though ive completed up to level 4 tripple p parenting classes, done rewards & sanctions,set clear boundries, being obsessively consistant, praise & ignore,used insentives.....even taken him to the police station on occation. i beleive there is possibilities & simularities with regards to adhd and aspergers but whenever i suggest this i just get "were not qualified to make a judgement" or "getting a diagnosis wont change his behaviour so why would it help you to know if he has a condition". i really dont know where to turn or what to do, please help. i also have an older son who displays no simular behaviour to that of my youngest. :-(

unsure if i have posted this thread in the correct place, but would really appreiciate any advice. thankyou......

To be honest I have never been in your position, and I am hoping someone will be along in a minute who has been in your situation to give you good solid advice.

However, my first instinct (if I was in your position) would be to go and see my GP. Maybe initially without your ds with you. Go through everything that has gone on and see what they can do to help, or if they can refer you to get different/better advice.

I don't know what support or help you can get even if he is diagnosed but I would hazard a guess that it would be a whole lot better than you are getting now.

I really do hope someone here can give you some "proper" advice as opposed to just my gut instinct.

G xx

From what you say, I'm surprised that you haven't already been put in touch with a social worker. The pru unit telling you that your son's behaviour is 'learned behaviour' or due to bad parenting is no help whatsoever. My friend has a 6 year old who is out of control, he was being assessed by camhs for ages and then they said there was nothing out of the ordinary about him, and alluded to the fact that his parents were to blame. Not true! They are great parents, he really just ignores almost everything they and anyone else in authority says. He had to leave his first school - his teacher had been teaching for 25yrs and said that this boy was the first pupil to reduce her to tears (of frustration) in all that time. The doctor believes he has ADHD, my friend thinks there's something else there such as Asperger's. Yes, getting a diagnosis 'won't change his behaviour', but my friend would feel relieved if there was 'something' diagnosed in her son, as at present she is wondering what she is doing wrong. He was behaving negatively from a very young age. Her 4 year old is completely different and yet they have been raised the same. My 4 year old has been diagnosed with autism. He is hard work and has frequent tantrums, a very restricted diet, won't sleeep . . . if he hadn't been diagnosed I would be at my wits end wondering what I was doing wrong. Social workers get a bad rap at times, but they are they for support and advice. Why not contact them and ask for some advice, see what they can do to help?

You might be better asking for this to be put in to special needs..

Xposted sorry.

In my experience, social workers are so over-loaded that you may get an initial interview with social work with lots of nods and this is what we can do type statements but then nothing else gets done, due to other priority cases. We did get put in touch with another youth support service through social services, but they have been a load of tribe and when we went back and asked for additional help with DD1 (15), the youth support service got told to pull their socks up which they did for a while and then nothing.

Also should have said - is there anything in his genetic make up that could give you a clue about his behaviour? My DH's friend (since childhood) has a 7 year old who is pretty wild - destructive, rude, violent with other children (usually those older than him - he'll take them all on given the chance), bad tempered, ignores rules/requests by parents and teachers - but he is also very intelligent. DH says the child is a slightly more intense version of his father when he was that age. The father is now a very driven and successful businessman, who is well on his way to making his 1st million. He is also charming, fun, and popular. So there could be light at the end of the tunnel!

thankyou for your replies....
i have taken him to visit the gp who sent me away with FOUR bottles of sedative medicine and told me it was down to the schools to refer him to specialist areas.
some of my sons behaviours include....
his need to always be in control/ very minipulative
cannot control his impulses to do the wrong thing(however as i tell him a million times a day "you always have a choice, you can choose to behave in the correct way or the wrong way, the correct way earns rewards & the wrong way looses your rewards" its like it doesnt register or he doesnt care that what he does or how he behaves upsets people and always causes trouble in one way or another.
he never keeps still, he is always running,climbing,jumping,spinning,prancing and fidgeting in all circumstances wherever we go which has resulted in me staying at home more and more often as i find myself embarrassed and feeling the need to explain to total stangers that i do try my best etc..
he hardley ever cries, even when he hurts himself, i have only ever seen him shed real tears 6 times in his 8yrs, he makes all the right noises of crying but it seems to me it is more an outburst of anger and frustration than genuine upset & hurt.
he is very argumentative, rude, blurts out very inappropriate comments, shouts,screams, throws himself around then tries to say you made him do it. he gives me ultimatums, repeats himself over and over & has a slight stutter. yet however he is a very bright child who is advanced for his age academically and uses his cleverness to his advantage.

none of these problems occured with my eldest son and i am constantly made to feel like its because of something i have been doing wrong.

he is also very destructive, does not listen, instigates arguments just for the sake of it and behaves in a very dangerous manner due to having no fear what so ever, so i find it difficult that at almost 9 yrs of age he cannot be left on his own in a room even for afew seconds as if he is given the opportunity he will be up to something he shouldnt which often results in him hurting himself, but that is not even enough to stop him doing the same thing again and again. so frustrating!
thankyou so much for all your comments i will certainley take all your advice on board....

mojomojo3488 Sounds like you are trying hard and finding The System trying. I'm sorry to say it but in the current financial climate (loathe that phrase) it's only the really high-tariff children that are receiving services/support/funding. Make an appointment at your local Social Work dpt we're they're not all child-snatching ogres and I hope that they have some other suggestions/resources that you can access which may be more helpful. Asking for help is far often simpler than when the situation becomes so out of your control that help gets thrust upon you. Become the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. Good luck and my best wishes for you and your DC.

Mojomojo - I'd go back to your GP and ask for a referral to a community paediatrician - then your son could be assessed for conditions like ADHD & Asperghers. You may find the Special Needs section to be useful. Good luck.

Just to add that most Social Services workers know if we were allowed to step in at lower levels, then it would save a lot of worry, sadness, and money in the long run. But that's Management for you .

Your GP was wrong. He can refer to a community paediatrician, as tipsycat said who can then request an Ed Psych referral.

Try and see a different GP from last time if you can.

Yes, I agree with Becarooo and others.

Firstly you need to get him assessed for ADHD and Aspergers.

If he has Aspergers then he shouldn't be in a PRU he should be in a school for ASD or a mainstream school with support from the ASD outreach team.

You need your GP to refer you to a child development paed.

You need a diagnosis - it will help you and him. But more importantly it will help school to help him - because school will then be able to get help from the ASD team.

Sorry you're having such a hard time of it and are being given such bad advice from the professionals who are meant to be helping you :(

Next time post on the MN SN children board. There are many, many of us over there in similar positions to you.....

you say you are a lone parent

how old was he when you split up with father
was split amicable or nasty
did parents fight a lot, either in front or away from child
has he a stable home life, i.e. not being moved from pillar to post
does he see his dad
does he want to see his dad
do you have drink/drug/anxiety problems
does he watch/play inappropriate age games/tv

all those things could make him act up - that might be whats meant by learned behaviour. i.e he is responding to things that he has seen/heard/lived through

i think some parents, not saying you OP, see getting a label for their kid as letting them off the hook as regards parenting.

If he has gone through a nasty split from dad, had his home life or schooling routine upset, been allowed to play/watch inappropriate games, that could all have an effect on him and him getting a label wont address those problems

thankyou i will be making another appointment with my gp first thing monday morning.

ive found everytime i have asked for an assesment for adhd & aspergers i get asked "why?" then when i reel off my reasons i get told it sounds like i got a symptom list from the internet which shouldnt be trusted.

ive known for years that there is something not right about my sons behaviour but its so hard when every door you knock on gets slammed in your face harder every time.

should i take the route of social services aswel as the gp?

i have just found the special needs threads. thankyou, i will be reading though them now.

its comforting to know there is other people in my situation who are willing to share advice & experience and this has lifted my spirits and i feel more positive about things.

Feel for u mojomojo. My friend has one ds with similar problems and an older ds who has no.difficulties at all and she is continually told it is her parenting and yet how can it be when the differences are so extreme and she is a very consistent parent. Her ds who.has difficulties is now at a specialist boarding school during the week and thriving. It has been a very tough few years for her but i think having a diagnosis of adhd helped her alot. I wish u good luck this is not an easy situation for u.

Mojomojo - I'm only pregnant with my first so I don't have children of my own yet but I'm a trained TA with SEN experience (though this really doesnt make me an expert). Your description of your son exactly describes another child I used to work with who was diagnosed with Asperger's. This child was only diagnosed because we requested an evaluation so that we could hire a one-to-one worker so maybe having a chat with his teacher and asking her to give you a behavioural statement may help? Please don't blame yourself, you sound like a fantastic mother who is being badly let down by the system.

You have had some excellent advice, I would definitely push for a GP referral to the comm paed.

When your ds has been under CAMHS have they assessed him for ADHD or ASD?

@Scrambledeggs, ADHD or ASD is not a label it is a diagnosis of a neurological condition.

I really feel for you...it's hard enough without beating yourelf up and having to beg for help. How is his diet? His eating habits?

mojo ms DS3 is exactly like this and i have known their was something up with him since he was 18 months old.It is only cos I have 5 other children who behave normally that I know his behaviour is not down to poor parenting .I am also a single parent so understand how relentles it is with no one to share the load. I am trying for the second time to get a diagnosis of ADHD for him. It has been a lot of hard work on my part to get as far as we have. I keep getting told ' we don't like to diagnose until they are at least 10'. Meanwhile I have trouble trying to be taken seriously. I would say to you be persistant and go back to the GP and Camhs and push for it. Did you realise you can claim Disability Living Allowance and maybe carers Allowance because of the difficulty in looking after a child like this. See if you have any charities for children with special needs near you and use their help. My local charity have been a godsend and helped me so much.

just wanted to post to say that you have my sympathy, as your ds sounds very challenging indeed.

has Oppositional Defiance Disorder ever been suggested (often occurs alongside adhd, apparently).

not an expert at all, but just felt i wanted to respond to you.

Have you had a meeting with the head of the PRU. Is the educational officer still involved at all and what was her 'take' on the reasons behind the move out of mainstream school?

Has your son had any input from a team such as the BEST team, Behavioural Education Support Team, the title varies under Local Authorities.

You need to be very proactive, if you back off you will be seen as the cause and not trying to be part of the solution (as tough as it is). The PRU can add weight to any referals from the GP but it can happen quicker if all parties involved with the child are in agreement and working together.

If you are seen as the problem or his home life you should have had more input from professionals before they moved him.

Have you discussed long term plans with anyone re education and life skills/behaviour in general?