to have had an abortion and feel ZERO shame or regret

[GetOrfMoiCase]

In AIBU because it is a popular topic. I know I am not being unreasonable.

Thread is in response to a report I heard on the news yesterday which was shamefully presented, regarding abortion access.

There is a thread on MN currently about it www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1222273-Chipping-away-at-abortion-rights-govt-appoints-Life-as-sexual-health-adviser

Apparently there is a twitter thingummy going around 'I had an abortion' for people to discuss guilt free abortions.

Just thought it would be appropriate to have a thread on here for people put a positive side of abortion.

My story: got pregnant 5 years ago. My dd was 10. I was in a relationship of 6 months duration and had recently started a new job. Condom failure. My partner and I agreed that we didn't want a baby, I booked an abortion and had it without a backward glance. No emotional fall out afterwards. No guilt.

swallowedafly
"do people go to ikea at 7.30 on a saturday night?"
Plenty. There was a long queue. Rather that than go during the day with small children in tow.

"she'll never answer a question.

to do so would acknowledge that she is happy with women and female children dying and that the name 'prolife' is a farce.

now she might quote me having said the above and tear it apart but will she say whether she thinks the family of the 9 yr old raped child were right to seek an abortion?"

The little girl in question has been raped by her stepfather since she was six years old apparently.
The crime is so enormously repugnant that it is hard to even contemplate.
Setting the issue of the RC churches excommunication aside ( because really, who cares? An excommunication doesn't mean you go to jail or anything, and apparently it's an automatic thing anyway. The RC church can't forbid anyone to get an abortion, only the law of the land can do that)

Abortion is murder. I think that's a perfectly reasonable position to hold, given that the fetus is by any objective standard, a human life)
Is it ever right to murder?
Sometimes perhaps.
For example in self defence, when someone poses a grave risk to the lives of other people.

I have difficulty seeing the fetus as a threat in and of itself, because after all, it is entirely innocent of anything other than taking up residence in the womb of it's mother.
Abortion for rape is to give the child the death penalty for the crime of her father.

That said, could I suffer to see my 9 year old going through a pregnancy that her little body could hardly bear?
I have to acknowledge that this would be an excruciatingly difficult decision for me. To arrange for my grandchild, or grandchildren, to be killed in order to spare my daughter this suffering?
Just agonising.
I would want to explore all the possibilities. Could a child be delivered at say, 23 weeks, giving the babies at least a fighting chance?
A child that has been raped consistently since the age of six must be utterly traumatised and damaged. Is the act of killing new life going to help heal, or compound and worsen, the violence that has been done to her?
All I can say is that I certainly could not blame the family of this child for taking the decision they did.
But that doesn't change the fact that abortion remains murder, whatever the circumstances.

lissilou
"and, when I was in hospital dying from my ruptured ep on the forms I signed the salpingectomy was referred to as a termination. I had to give permission for the disposal of remains."

Sigh.
A slapingectomy is NOT a termination in the usual sense of the word. The baby is not directly killed. Nonetheless it cannot survive once the fallopian tube ( or at least the portion to which it is attached) is removed.

"i ask again, are you really a mw? you seen shockingly ill-informed."

About what precisely do I seem shockingly ill informed?

"QueenMary, what do you think about what happened to Angela Carder?"
springchicken
Do you really expect me to read all that and then pronounce my opinion on it?
It's past midnight. I'm back from Ikea. I've answered the other questions.
I'm not going to chase after every hare you let out of the trap.
Goodnight.

"Queenmary, do you think that false accusations of rape are such a terrible problem that the law needs to be changed? Because that's a common belief among anti-choicers as well"

And btw springchicken, I'm not answering this question either.
We have quite enough to be getting on with, without you throwing in new issues to fight about.
Start a new thread if you want to get on your hobby hoorse.

Do you know what methotrexate does to the living fetus?
It's like drain cleaner. It dissolves anything in it's path. I wouldn't pour it on a ladybird let alone a fetus.

Ectopic pregnancies are only drug managed in the very early stages. Is a 5 week old embryo going to feel any different being 'dissolved' or having it's blood supply cut off by removing the tube - I'll answer that for you - no it's fucking not. It's a hell of a lot of difference for the mother though.

And you didn't ask the question of why you think it's morally better to bring a severely disabled child into the world who will suffer terribly for a few hours then die than to terminate a pregnancy.

I'm not terribly surprised you don't want to answer or think about most of the questions put to you QueenMary. Actually, I'm almost glad, given the utterly chilling repsonse you posted to the question about a raped 9 year old girl, who you would like to see made to continue her unwanted and physically damaging pregnancy till 23 weeks and then undergo a c-section just so as not to upset your feelings about the evils of abortion.

Chilling is definitely the word. I'm sure a bit of major surgery on top of abuse, rape and pregnancy is the best thing for children. Funny how pro-lifers don't give a shit about life once it's out of the birth canal.

Neither of you actually read my answer then?
Is there any point taking time over a thoughtful answer when you are quite determined in advance to find anything I say "chilling"?

I read it. Which part have I misunderstood?

Still up reading articles in the Washington Post about how Catholic hospitals in the States are putting women at risk by transferring them to other facilities for ectopic pregnancy/miscarriage management, and delaying their treatment, because it goes against their beliefs to give them the medical attention they need. Shocking and this is recently not years ago. I don't know how anyone can say that pro-life HCPs can give adequate care to pregnant women. I will post links if anyone is interested.

I would be interested in seeing the link.

But I am not even morbidly curious to hear what rantings queenmary has to produce next. It's getting disturbing now. Putting a nine year old victim of incest through an unwanted and potentially dangerous pregnancy (and I felt ill enough and hormonally unbalanced as a fully grown adult) just so she can perform the brutal removal of an extremely premature and almost non-viable baby in the hope of saving it's life (and what a sure as shit excellent life it has to look forward to!) for the quite frankly selfish sake of not offending her precious moral code? Who would even want to live through that?? Ugh, have a word with yourself.

You wouldn't like me to be your midwife, and I wouldn't want you babysitting my children

Wasn't me who said that!

"I think that's a perfectly reasonable position to hold, given that the fetus is by any objective standard, a human life" for a start, that simply isn't true.

The idea that anyone would suggest a 9 year old girl carry a baby to 23 weeks, then presumably c-section said 9 year old girl, is actually completely, utterly repugnant.

And you probably think you are the moral, humane one.

Abortion isn't murder, Queenmary. Repeating it doesn't make it true. And thanks for confirming what I suspected, that some pro lifers such as yourself are so obsessed by foetuses but you couldn't care less about a BORN child. Your response to the plight of a raped 9 year old is sickening. As a MW, I would have thought that you would have some level of understanding about how traumatic pregnancy and birth can be, both physically and emotionally, and how damaging this could be if forced upon an abused child. But apparently not. As long as the bunch of cells inside her is protected who cares, eh? What twisted priorities.

queenmary. Im with the others. your stance repulses me. you are arguing against the value of one life over the other yet you are putting the life of a bunch of cells over that of a real living, breathing person.

and I assure you, my salpingectomy was referred to as a termination, its the type of thing that sticks with you.

or, saf, in easier words, she's a fucking fruitbat

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/19/AR2011011907539_3.html?sid=ST2011011907548

As Queen has said that she would opt out of procedures that go against her beliefs it raises the genuine question whether people with these beliefs are fit to practice. Opting out can cause dangerous delays in the treatment of women - unless you work in a hospital that always has spare midwives with nothing to which I'm not sure exists.
I'm pretty sure I couldn't opt-out of any part of my job on moral grounds and I didn't even work in a profession were my doing so would have any life or death consequence. I suppose if the pro-lifer in question has a religious reason for their views it would be trickier but I personally don't think that the excuse of religion should prevent people from being able to carry out their job in full. If your conscience doesn't allow you to carry out the full role of a midwife you should find another job.

www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/19/AR2011011907539_3.html?sid=ST2011011907548

was just thinking that, what on earth do you tell yourself to make it ok in your head to force a rape victim, let alone a 9 year old rape victim, go through pregnancy and birth

Also put yourself in the position of the child who grows up and finds out that their mother was a scared 9 year old who was forced to go through a pregnancy and birth (because a 9 year old would be relying on the people around her to make a sensible decision). And your dad is a rapist and also your grandad/uncle whatever. Would you be glad to have been 'saved'? I don't know that I would.

But the foetus's needs should be on the list too

The main need a foetus has, I would have thought, would be a parent/s that want to raise it.

You cannot compare a termination to killing a newborn.

I deduce, from what you have said, that my foetus had the same rights as my existing children. How can that be? My existing children deserved me to be the best mother I could be. And pregnant, with an unplanned, unwanted child did not help me be that!

Raising 3 children, one of who I didn't want, wouldn't make me be that.

My needs came first. My children's second. Therefore, I couldn't continue the pregnancy.

They are an important factor, but not the only factor IMHO. It is unacceptable to euthanise a born child because they are detrimental to the mental, physical or financial health of their mother, siblings etc

You are wrong.