to have had an abortion and feel ZERO shame or regret

[GetOrfMoiCase]

In AIBU because it is a popular topic. I know I am not being unreasonable.

Thread is in response to a report I heard on the news yesterday which was shamefully presented, regarding abortion access.

There is a thread on MN currently about it www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1222273-Chipping-away-at-abortion-rights-govt-appoints-Life-as-sexual-health-adviser

Apparently there is a twitter thingummy going around 'I had an abortion' for people to discuss guilt free abortions.

Just thought it would be appropriate to have a thread on here for people put a positive side of abortion.

My story: got pregnant 5 years ago. My dd was 10. I was in a relationship of 6 months duration and had recently started a new job. Condom failure. My partner and I agreed that we didn't want a baby, I booked an abortion and had it without a backward glance. No emotional fall out afterwards. No guilt.

[escapeartist]

Suchprospects I agree - I have had both a miscarriage and an abortion, both of which were terrible terrible experiences.
What should also be taken into account is that women will not be tested for factors contributing to mc, until after they have had 3. Does that constitue murder too? Or manslaughter?
(In my case I had private testing after one mc, which showed I had thrombophilia, meaning that had I waited for the NHS, I could have had two more failed pg...)

[hairylights]

Because there is No such thing as an emergency abortion!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes there ui. I've had two

1. Methotrexate injection for pregnancy of unknown location where hcg was slowly rising. Was seriously affecting my mental health
   

2. Medical manageent of early pregnancy that was not developing as it should(but was still developing)

Both, left to their own devices, would have ended up threatening my life.

Both procedures are called "abortion" and "termination of pregnancy".

Do you suggest I should have carried on without intervention and risk my life for lives that were highly unlikely to ever progress?

Believe me, I want a baby very much. But I am totally pro choice.

[hairylights]

I'd have been appalled had that been the case.

[hairylights]

swallowed Thanks. after three losses in a year :( I'm now six weeks pregnant again. At forty three I'm a bit of a record breaker I guess! Am just hoping for the best.

[mybrainsthinkingfuckyou]

YANBU to feel no shame or regret - it is your body, your life, your choice, your feelings
YABVVU and attention-seeking trollish to talk about it in such a cavalier way
as if we all need an abortion high-five raise-the-roof lol partay.

[mybrainsthinkingfuckyou]

@hairy

had not bothered to read any of last forty pages - stupid of me really so only seen last few posts now. Lots and lots of luck with this one x

[queenmarythegreat]

"Because there is No such thing as an emergency abortion!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes there ui. I've had two
"

For the umpteenth time.
An ectopic pregnancy is a pregnancy that will abort itself if left to its own devices, along with the mother.
A ruptured ectopic is a surgical emergency, It is not an "emergency abortion".
Aside from that, midwives are not gynae nurses and they are not involved with anything less than about 24 weeks.
This issue wouldn't even apply to me. But if it did, I would have no ethical problem in assisting with a salpingectomy for an ectopic.

[hairylights]

So what? They are still abortions.

[queenmarythegreat]

"I just want to point out that women's bodies reflexively abort all the time (some doctors are beginning to think the majority of fertilized eggs are aborted) without our conscious participation. I find it difficult to reconcile the reality of our nature with the idea that we should simply accept a fetus as the same as a baby."

And people die all the time. That doesn't mean they were murdered.
Heartattacks, strokes, cancer etc are not the same thing as poisoning or stabbing are they?

[hairylights]

What is a non-ruptured ectopic or a pregnancy of unknown location that has to be medically managed, if it is not an abortion?

[differentnameforthis]

A ruptured ectopic is a surgical emergency Yes, a surgical emergency to terminate a pregnancy. Just because it was a surgical emergency, doesn't make it any less an emergency termination.

So, of course they were abortions.

Dealing with the following would be terminating a pregnancy....

a non-ruptured ectopic
a pregnancy of unknown location that has to be medically managed

Termination of pregnancy = abortion.

You are only fighting the semantics because you don't want to believe you assisted in the termination of a pregnancy, because it goes against everything you believe in. Doesn't make it any less so, though.

[michelleseashell]

Taking such a black and white standpoint is all well and good but life will not twist and bend accordingly to suit your logic. You may believe it is murder is all circumstances but the view that that automatically equals wrong is erroneous. It is utterly abominable to even consider putting a nine year old through the treatment you described. In such a situation you do not have right and wrong, you have the choice of which will do the least harm. I made such a decision once. I believe I chose the lesser of two evils. If I were the unborn child, would I sacrifice my sure to be miserable life in order that other children may go on to have happier lives? Yes, I believe I would. I wouldn't be so selfish as to believe that I must live at all cost. My question was how would I feel if it were me and my mother in that situation. The child loves it mother too. And would I die so that my sister could live on and achieve things I never could? Yes, I would.

I can never know whether I did make the right choice. All I know is that much good has come of it. That people are now happy rather than unhappy. That new children live. That if my little baby did suffer, that it was nothing compared to what she might have suffered. I wouldn't undo that.

[SuchProspects]

"And people die all the time. That doesn't mean they were murdered." No, and that wasn't what I said. I said the fact our bodies do "kill" fetuses all time is one of the reasons I do not believe that a fetus is alive in the way a baby is.

[queenmarythegreat]

"I said the fact our bodies do "kill" fetuses all time is one of the reasons I do not believe that a fetus is alive in the way a baby is."

This is completely illogical.
Our bodies do not kill fetuses all the time.
At worst they are imperfect life support systems.

I think you all need to understand what "alive" means.
There is a perfectly objective scientific definition of this.
I did it in biology o level, you don't need to be a scientist to understand it.
Google "seven life processes", I don't have time to explain it all or answer every objection right now. I'm taking the children for a bike ride.

The definition of alive is not dependant on your personal feeling.
It is impossible to have a coherent discussion when there is no agreement about terms and even objectively concrete ideas like "life" and "death"are up for grabs.

[queenmarythegreat]

the fact our bodies do "kill" fetuses all time is one of the reasons I do not believe that a fetus is alive in the way a baby is
.
And even if our bodies did kill fetuses, I cannot see how that would make them "not alive" to begin with.
The illogicality of comments like these are staggering.

[SunshineisSorry]

This discussion has gone MENTAL!! Im personally pro-life and wish that abortion didnt exist, but it does and actually, when i think about it, its as well that it does. I dont have to like it, never will, but as i have said before that is my PERSONAL view and i could never judge another woman for it.

Queenmary - you are taking the life argument to the extreme though, with an objective like that you wouldnt eat anything!! by the seven life processes, plants are alive but no one in their right mind would suggest that cutting the grass is murder. Bacteria are alive etc etc

For me, personally, the potential for life is enough, but i understand women who say its not a life until its born or sentient, i think its a bit niave but i think your arguments are doing nothing for the pro-life argument whatsoever. Again, the question is, when does that ball of cells have life in our terms - the capacity for pain? an understanding of its existance?

I'm pro-life, im also pro euthanasia. Im simply antisuffering

[SuchProspects]

I didn't actually say a fetus wasn't alive. I said it wasn't alive in the way a baby is by which I meant I don't consider a fetus to be a human being. I'd also point out that there is more than one definition of "alive" and biology 'O' level is not the be all and end all of scientific or philosophical thought.

"It is impossible to have a coherent discussion when there is no agreement about terms and even objectively concrete ideas like "life" and "death"are up for grabs."

This is one of the reasons why abortion is a personal issue. Because these definitions are not set in stone.

[SuchProspects]

I find the abortion is always wrong perspective to be unpalatable. It is fatalistic and I find fatalism to be a really distasteful moral code. Refusing to take action annoys me, it's a fetishization of innocence over good.

[MarianneM]

allegrageller - READ the posts and the ones that precede them properly before posting a response. Quoting you below:

"To the astonishingly offensive post by MarianneM above- implying that anyone who had an abortion after getting pregnant due to being pissed or stoned (to the point of incapacitation and/or loss of judgement- are you seriously saying this has never happened to you? Then you are in the minority of women under 40 believe me) isteaching 'their daughters' to be so stupid. etc.

How utterly ridiculous. I described my own act as silly. I don't have daughters, but I would certainly use that event to describe silliness with consequences I would want them to avoid."

So what is your problem with my post? I said that I think there is no excuse for being nonchalant about contraception. I was told that (among a few other reasons) being incapacitated due to alcohol or drugs was an excuse. To which I answered that I thought it was an appalling attitude and asked if people are teaching their daughters that it's ok to have unprotected sex if you're drunk or stoned!

Also, are you saying that the majority of women under 40 have had an abortion after getting pregnant having had unprotected sex while pissed or stoned? I don't think so! And yes, I am seriously saying it has never happened to me.

[issynoko]

Are you aware of the Sorites Paradox - we discussed it in Philosophy lectures with reference to abortion - when does a cell become a person...

The sorites paradox (from Ancient Greek: σωρείτης sōreitēs, meaning "heaped up") is a paradox that arises from vague predicates. The paradox of the heap is an example of this paradox which arises when one considers a heap of sand, from which grains are individually removed. Is it still a heap when only one grain remains? If not, when did it change from a heap to a non-heap?

Fascinating but I am far too emotional to have found it helpful when considering what we'd do if our baby had severe disability, as we had to do after a CVS last week. Luckily all was fine and we hadn't decided either way what we would do, but how anyone for whom such deliberations have been a reality can feel completely clear cut is beyond me. I was a wreck. No wonder I was shit at Philosophy and did woolly old Literature with all its lovely subjectivity instead.

[issynoko]

Hmm. Seems the Ancient Greek has been converted into code. Apologies to those wanting to do a bit of Greek this afternoon.

[MarianneM]

P.S. I HAVE NOT said that if a woman gets preganant while pissed or stoned and doesn't want the baby she should carry the baby to term anyway. This was YOUR interpretation of my post!