about fanfiction that features child abuse? Not very nice, sorry

[littlepigshavebigears]

I have a bit of an addiction for Harry Potter fanfic stories of the non-slash variety

I like potionsandsnitches.com especially but sometimes I venture out into the big wide world of fanfiction

and I have wondered for a while about stories which are adult rated and refer to "non-con" or "chan" sexual relationships between adults and underaged kids (HP and his friends, usually)

shurely these stories are illegal? You can't just write lurid fantasies about child abuse and rape and post them on the net, can you?

And if it isn't illegal, well it bloody well should be

That's been my experience. I'm not mad on slash (but I like the Man from Uncle so it's bloody hard to find anything else ) but I find it very easy to avoid anything I don't want to read due to the categorisation of the fanfic.

I see the distinctions SOH, but are you really saying that it would be fine for a story to feature graphic scenes of Lucius raping/sexually brutalising Draco, because the plot demands it?

because in my view that is somebody inventing child abuse scenarios for entertainment and it should be illegal.

I do not get the fan fiction thing.

Sounds fucking odd to want to write about rape and abuse and connect it to your favourite 'character'.

That's not what I said at all is it?

It's upsetting to accidentally come across that stuff, but it is normally very well labelled. Certainly I've only come across one in the many years I've been in fandom (and OH my backbutton! VROOM out of there).

I don't think, as fictional children cannot be harmed, it's right to call it child abuse. I mean, the problem with child porn is that there is a child being abused to make it. I may be repulsed by the concept, but the THOUGHT, the CONCEPT, is not the harm. Many things are repulsive, but I think harm must be done to a person before we criminalise them.

It is my understanding that fic is overwhelmingly written by women, and that "chan" is often written by victims of (actual) child abuse. Having spoken to some women who write it, they seem to primarily be identifying with the child in the scenario. I'm sure that's not always true, but when I learnt that, it really helped me to understand that there are complicated and personal motivations that I'm simply not privy to or equipped to judge. It can be a way of empowering themselves, literally writing and directing the story. There's a huge genre of adult rape fic too, and I think it's non trivial that a genre mostly created by women has these preoccupations. Of course there are other reasons to read and write that material, but it's worth knowing those ones.

why should it be illegal though?

Lol turdass, I rather like your name. Makes me giggle every time I see it :o Ah, Carlotta the oh so common circus girl, Gwendoline would never approve. There must be Blyton fanfic out there come to think of it...

Fan fiction isn't writing about rape and abuse. A very tiny minority of people want to write/read abuse. The fanfiction didn't cause that. Some people might use it as an outlet for that.

Fanfiction ranges from 'imagine what Harry Potter would look like if he was a cat' to 'massive 765 part epic about Harry pining over his lost wand. Then every other thing inbetween.

Thingumy, not all fanfiction is sexual, some of it explores plot twists that could have happened, or explores other eras touched on in the original stories - people have written stuff about the marauders at hogwarts for example, or HP's children and their friends - some of it is bloody brilliant

it is true that the warnings are usually pretty clear. I have only very rarely ended up reading something that turned out to contain child abuse or rape etc. BUT it makes me feel worried (and a bit sick) to see so many stories listed with warnings of graphic child abuse, rape etc. I don't know why people feel the need to wite them. But I think they should be illegal.

thingumy, I'm not surprised you don't get it if you think that all it is is rape and child abuse.

That is not what fanfiction is. SOH is completely right

Thinggummy not all fan fiction is about rape and abuse!
There is much more to it!

I use FanFiction.net and they have age filters on there and you have to rate your story's suitability. And other readers are very quick to point out if you have rated your story wrongly.

I've written some fanfiction, expanding on certain scenes or characters or writing parodies. Nothing involving child abuse though.
Most decent authors will age their characters to adults if there is going to be any kind of sex involved in the story.

I didn't say that I said I don't understand those that feel to write stories that rape and abuse and attach it to well known characters.

I didn't say all fan fiction is like that.

Do people really read fanfiction that doesn't have lemons in it? Why?

There is plenty of published fiction that contains child abuse/rape/sex. Unlike fanfiction it doesn't generally warn for it, it doesn't put age ratings on the front and it's making money. Do you think that should be made illegal too? IMO fanfic is often more responsible than the legitimate publishing world.

I don't know about that MrsDmitri, I have never read any fiction that features child abuse apart from Lolita

IS it legal to write about adults having sex with kids, in a graphic descriptive way? I just assumed not, but I was only thinking about fanfiction

I know what you mean Littlepigs, but I don't know about the legalities of the ones featuring children and sex? It isn't good though, there are some right sickos out there.

It's easier to write for established characters. The people reading it know the characters already, they know the history, they're already invested in them - you don't have to make them care because they already do, and this works whether you like writing fluffy character pieces or you veer towards the whumpy, hurt/comfort side of things.

This has reminded me, during my English Lit A Level we had to write a "missing" chapter from a list of books. I chose The Hobbit, and wrote a chapter about what good old Gandalf was up to when he was away from the others :)

I don't read it but isn't there a whole genre of 'miserylit' books that go into awful childhood abuse scenarios? It's not my cup of tea, so I don't touch them ditto with underage fanfic, but it obviously resonants with some people or there wouldn't be a market. It's very much 'your kink is not my kink' I like what I like, you like what you like and as long as it's not hurting anyone then that's fine.

WTF? I don't understand what fanfic is. Maybe I'm getting old.

EricNorthmansMistress - No, not very often although I quite like gen Criminal Minds/Supernatural crossover fanfic, but that's because there isn't any of the slash variety.

I really should be doing something productive but...

Honeybee79 Fan Fiction

BTW there's been no ruling on fanfiction in the US, where most of it is hosted so it's not accurate to say it is "technically a violation of copyright". Copyright explicitly protects making copies, that is reproducing a (whole) work. Once you're talking about reproducing portions, or even producing a transformative work (arguably fic is transformative), each case must be determined on its merits, with some explicit defences for parody and commentary (fair use). No such case has been tried, but going from some related cases (The Wind Done Gone comes to mind) it's by no means clear the rights holder would win.

IANAL (and yes I am appalled at how much fucking copyright trivia is cluttering up my brain).

I don't think it should be illegal for the following reasons, some of which have already been mentioned.

1. Some of the stories are about people working through the aftermath of child abuse. I don't know why people want to read that, but then I don't know why people want to read misery memoirs like 'please Daddy, don't.' But misery memoirs are not illegal.

1. Underage sex. No doubt a lot of it is written and read by HP fans who are underage. They have a right to write about their own sexuality. The Cherub series of spy books for kids have underage sex in them (and it is not viewed negatively in the books) and they are not illegal. In fact DS was given one by his state school.

1. Non-con which does have a clear moral voice about the aftermath. Yes, it is really dubious and disturbing, but then so is Lolita. Nobody has made reading that illegal in the UK, nor have they made a lot of films illegal which feature adult/teen relationships.

sorry i didnt know. i thought you wrote it and then you could sell it.

again ive never even heard of it!