Has everyone seen the photo of the Archbishop of Canterbury presenting an award to Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi? If not, please have a look

[TheStateWeAreIn]

I don’t know what to say really, I just want as many women on MN as possible to see this picture.

Particularly Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi‘s wife.

There’s so much going on there.

(I know there’s another thread about the award and it’s subsequent withdrawal, I just wanted to start a thread to focus on the photo)

DebbieSavage popped up on a thread about asylum seekers the other day - another poster said that Debbie had said on a different thread that he or she is doing 'satire', and parodying an extreme mindset.

I suppose the person swathed in black could have been trans for extra woke points!

I’m a woman so I’m interested women’s rights? Not just for me or women exactly like me.

Should white people not care about black people’s rights?

Should people without disabilities not care about the rights of people with disabilities?

An odd viewpoint

As evidenced by a few presumably women on here immediately commenting that it might be her choice etc.

You could say this thread is also a microcosm 😬

No, I would gladly wear one myself but I am a creative person and would struggle to express myself in a way that suits my character or flair, if you know what I mean?

For someone who is less creatively inclined, I would say go for it. Not having to worry about having your appearance judged by men as you go about your day must feel so liberating. It makes me sad I can't wear one actually.

The questions weren’t all addressed to the wife. Some are my questions to myself. Some are those I think the A of C should be asking herself.

The opposite argument to that is what they and their husbands are thinking about women who walk around in T shirts and a skirt or showing their faces and hair. That they are pieces of meat to be leered at? That they aren't dressed ' modestly' enough so they are fair game?

???

A herd of elephants in that room.

Sorry, just to be clear I was talking about white British men in that context. Please don't suggest for one minute that I was making any claims about what men from other cultural backgrounds think or act like, for all I know they don't act in that way at all.

You can wear one. No one will know who you are underneath. Your ' argument' about how oh so creative you are is patronising gobbledegook. Women who are forced to wear this garb often wear makeup underneath because they are not allowed to 'be creative' outside. Just wear whatever you want then shove this over the top-Job done.

Ah I get it. You're being funny. Ok then 🙄

Stop it Debs, we’ve talked to you about this before.

For anyone who hasn’t met our Debbie before, she is taking an extreme position to highlight it’s ridiculousness and doesn’t believe it for a minute.

Your satire isn't funny, or particularly insightful or clever, and it just derails the whole thread because everyone ends up responding to your ragebait.

Ffs.

The only reason that we are accepting such an obvious widespread abuse of women's rights - even their right to be able to breathe comfortably! - is because we are so desperate to be tolerant. As a society, we lose all rational thought in the name of being 'kind' and 'tolerant'.

In what other cases of abuse do we fall over ourselves to excuse it, saying anything to justify it. Maybe she likes it. Maybe she finds it freeing. Maybe it's just a coincidence that she's a Muslim and also enjoys wearing a black sheet that means she can't even look around properly as she only has tiny eye holes to look through.

In what other cases do we celebrate the extreme subjugation of women? We don't. If a western man dictated every aspect of what his wife/daughter wears, we would rightly label it as abuse. But when it's a Muslim, we tell ourselves that it's fine, each to our own, maybe she enjoys the abuse.

Yes, you can easily miss her. It’s so completely dehumanising. Why any woman on MN would defend it is beyond me.

I used to be involved in Interfaith work but the sexism and fakeness put me off. The CoE is so over concerned with looking kind and open minded they are blind to the misogyny of Islam.

Bollox

Debbie, please stop and join in the proper conversation. On the other thread once you did that you made some really good points.

Otherwise I’m going to report you for trolling

Exactly!

It does not look like 2 religions coming together, are you so desperate to be 'kind' that you're completely blinding yourself to what's staring you in the face?

It looks like one religion subjugating women and another so keen to please everyone that she's lost all sense of her own moral compass. Would the Archbishop be happy to be made to dress like that? I think not. But she's happy for other women to be mistreated if it makes her look tolerant.

And really, you think we need to ask each woman who's made to dress like that if it's their choice? You think it was a coincidence that when the Taliban came into power, all women chose to dress that way? And just by coincidence that women elsewhere didn't decide that this was the fashion for them. Amazing that they all had the same restrictive and impractical fashion ideas all at the same time when the Taliban took over.

Incredible level of whatever the social equivalent of suspension of disbelief is going on there.

I find that image to be absolutely sickening and disgusting. That smug middle aged do gooder, totally chuffed with herself, daft woman.
The fat Islamist misogynist should have turned the award down, having praised and supported Osama bin Laden.
The woman, if it is one looks shocking. The UK needs to be like other western countries and ban all head coverings. Sadly with the weak politicians we currently have, it won't happen just yet.

I don't agree with the burka/niqab (on the grounds that they dehumanise women in a way that never happens to men, and in fact really exist to mark women as men's property) and arguably there's nothing in the Quran explicitly stating that women need to cover up to that extent. It's a cultural thing rather than a religious one.

But there's so much racism/Islamophobia on MN that I'm not sure about engaging with what might be yet another bad faith thread.

I suspect him bringing his wife in her full niqab was purely performative on his behalf. I assume she wasn’t accompanying him for her contributions to any social interaction?
He was using her outfit to send a subliminal message about, and confirming his own views, attitudes and agendas.
Total misogyny.