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Has everyone seen the photo of the Archbishop of Canterbury presenting an award to Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi? If not, please have a look

638 replies

TheStateWeAreIn · 18/09/2026 12:28

I don’t know what to say really, I just want as many women on MN as possible to see this picture.

Particularly Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi‘s wife.

There’s so much going on there.

(I know there’s another thread about the award and it’s subsequent withdrawal, I just wanted to start a thread to focus on the photo)

Has everyone seen the photo of the Archbishop of Canterbury presenting an award to Hafiz Muhammad Tahir Mehmood Ashrafi? If not, please have a look
OP posts:
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10
quantumbutterfly · 20/09/2026 10:56

Medievalgirl2 · 20/09/2026 07:20

I've seen people trying to compare Burqas to nun's' wearing habits but its not the same at all.

Nuns choose to take vows and choose to dress like that- plus they're not going to be harmed if they take it off.

And you can see their faces. Plenty of nuns in the town I grew up in. Quite fond of a lace up brogue as I recall

BananaPeels · 20/09/2026 11:00

Medievalgirl2 · 20/09/2026 07:20

I've seen people trying to compare Burqas to nun's' wearing habits but its not the same at all.

Nuns choose to take vows and choose to dress like that- plus they're not going to be harmed if they take it off.

Also surely a Nun’s habit is simply a uniform? It isn’t mandated anywhere that is how they should dress and in fact if you to the Vatican you will see a wide variety of different clothing. Religious leaders of most faiths wear clothes to denote what they do. So do many jobs. The police don’t have to wear their uniform to do their job - they probably would be more effective without it tbh! Many nuns that do wear it are allowed to remove it when out and about if they so please and those that aren’t allowed as part of their order can choose to leave the order at any time. It isn’t a religious/cultural piece of clothing in my view in the same way that a general member of the religion wears it.

Laiste · 20/09/2026 11:01

DebbieSavage · 18/09/2026 13:15

A lot of women will tell you that they feel very liberated being dressed in a manner that keeps the negative attention of men away from them. As a western woman, I have always wondered what it would be like to wear something like a niqab or burqa and if it would make me feel less like a piece of meat on display for the patriarchy to leer at. I think it is something to consider most certainly.

Youre free to go out of the house wearing a big black duvet cover if you want to, with holes cut out for your eyes - but yet let me guess ... you don't.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

DrBlackbird · 20/09/2026 11:44

As others have pointed out, Debbie is being funny. Taking an ironic or humorous approach to the op. Not sufficiently to be obvious though. No one need engage.

quantumbutterfly · 20/09/2026 11:58

DrBlackbird · 20/09/2026 11:44

As others have pointed out, Debbie is being funny. Taking an ironic or humorous approach to the op. Not sufficiently to be obvious though. No one need engage.

There's a Bob Monkhouse joke along the lines of

  • 'I said I wanted to be a comedian when I grew up and everyone laughed at me, but nobody's laughing now.'
Greenismyfavouritecolournow · 20/09/2026 12:20

CandidLurker · 18/09/2026 19:00

@WinterGold

off topic but Oman is one of my favourite countries. It’s strange when we seem to have reached the point that we seem to have “stricter” Muslims in the Uk than in some actual Muslim countries.

They’re making a point. Not all Muslims are like this but the ones who are, are dangerous.

Alternativelyviewed · 20/09/2026 12:47

WinterGold · 19/09/2026 14:19

Exactly.

We all look at each other. I look at men, I look at other women. I’m not looking with any intent or any challenge. It’s natural curiosity. If we’re all honest, most of us enjoy people watching too.

Men look at women - fact. Even though some religions would like to, we haven’t yet got to the stage where inner thoughts are policed. If a man comes up to a woman and is obviously leery and revolting, that’s a clear offence, but how often does that honestly happen on our streets? Ironically, in my younger days I attracted far more unwelcome male attention in countries that had stricter expectations of their own women, than in any western nation so I get pretty exasperated by UK females bleating about welcoming a burka!

Perhaps we need to face the unpleasant truth that much of this stems from certain societies that have little real respect for women and just want to transplant those dogmas and prejudices here rather than accommodate to western culture? If that makes me racist, so be it.

There are often threads on here about experiences being a female alone in some countries

Alternativelyviewed · 20/09/2026 12:53

Therattt · 19/09/2026 19:17

I also look at majority Muslim countries like Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan where not only is niquab/ burka banned but the hijab is banned in schools and government buildings. Because they don't want extremists.

Edited

Wow that's incredible isn't it.

Astoundedwelshwoman · 20/09/2026 14:11

How can anyone ask how the burkha affects anyone else! I myself (and I am not alone in this) find them very intimidating! Having shared a lift with about 6 other people wearing them I exited feeling extremely frightened. These people could have been men or women and could have been hiding God knows what underneath. And yet motorcyclists are required to remove their helmets at petrol stations as they are considered intimidating!! This country is a joke.

WarehamResident · 20/09/2026 14:16

If one did not know that the image was genuine one would think it was a spoof

inigomontoyahwillcox · 20/09/2026 15:11

I’m done with the “women can wear what they want” line which insinuates (nay, states) that women take a wholly free, uninfluenced view of what they put on in the morning. Covering any part of your body due to the male gaze perpetuates the objectification of women just as much as uncovering them. Whether you live within a society which praises/expects one or the other - you are being subjugated.

Does anyone really think that a woman willingly decides wearing a Niqab or Burka without the influence of those around her and having the knowledge of the possible repercussions of her not doing so? Choice means freedom (aka the freedom to choose), and the freedom to wear what you want is not freedom if your wellbeing or life are in danger if you put the “wrong” thing on.

TheGander · 20/09/2026 16:10

WinterGold · 19/09/2026 18:59

Sadly and regrettably true - and proof that it’s a bigger issue than just niqabs/burkhas. It’s how women are viewed as a whole by some cultures and the value placed on them. Females are still viewed as unequal and of less value. Their only use is procreation and the use of these garments isn’t for the woman’s protection from unwelcome male attention - however much some liberal western females view it - it’s to ensure that the men can be sure that any children are definitely his. How misogynistic and medieval are these attitudes?

I would urge anyone to read Not Without My Daughter by Betty Mahmood or Princess by Jean P Sasson to understand what it is truly like to live within these restrictive practices.

Edited

I agree and for good measure some cultures add in female genital mutilation just to make absolutely sure. And yes I know it’s not only Muslims who do it and not all Muslims do it, but nonetheless there is a big overlap. About 90% of Egyptian women and virtually all Somali women have undergone FGM. On this matter and many other issues, Egyptian writer Nawaal Safari is well worth reading, She was a gynaecologist, and a feminist and didn’t pull her punches or worry about being “ disrespectful “ when telling the truth about the machinery of male domination in her country and beyond.

NancyThompson · 20/09/2026 16:12

I long for a society where woman are not dressing for men - not covering to avoid assault and judgement, not exposing to attact them. Just dressing with the same freedom men enjoy.

That said, I don't think it's a "both sides equal thing". There are dire consequences for not covering in certain societies, whereas there's no consequence on me if I don't expose more flesh than I'm comfortable doing.

Medievalgirl2 · 20/09/2026 18:06

BananaPeels · 20/09/2026 11:00

Also surely a Nun’s habit is simply a uniform? It isn’t mandated anywhere that is how they should dress and in fact if you to the Vatican you will see a wide variety of different clothing. Religious leaders of most faiths wear clothes to denote what they do. So do many jobs. The police don’t have to wear their uniform to do their job - they probably would be more effective without it tbh! Many nuns that do wear it are allowed to remove it when out and about if they so please and those that aren’t allowed as part of their order can choose to leave the order at any time. It isn’t a religious/cultural piece of clothing in my view in the same way that a general member of the religion wears it.

Yes, its basically a uniform in the way a priest may wear a cassock.

5MinuteArgument · 20/09/2026 18:32

AInightingale · 20/09/2026 10:36

Is anyone in the public sphere actually speaking out against this? I know Boris J made a flippant remark about full body veiling and was trailed for it.

No, very few people are speaking out against it. Politicians are chasing the Muslim vote, most left wing people including feminists are afraid of being called racist or Islamophobic.

So that only leaves people on the right of politics who are doing any push back against this. Which is a crazy situation.

5MinuteArgument · 20/09/2026 18:56

These garments are a security risk. They have been worn as disguises in bank and jewellery robberies in the UK and abroad.

We really should clamp down on it like they have in several other European countries. It would also help to suppress the more fundamentalist and extreme forms of Islam.

Warmlight1 · 20/09/2026 19:25

5MinuteArgument · 20/09/2026 18:56

These garments are a security risk. They have been worn as disguises in bank and jewellery robberies in the UK and abroad.

We really should clamp down on it like they have in several other European countries. It would also help to suppress the more fundamentalist and extreme forms of Islam.

How would you see that legislation looking?
Full body coverings banned? Covering faces banned? Or are you suggesting a clear focus on the item of clothing that is the niqab?
So I find some arguments for a legal limit of some kind persuasive but at the same time I'm concerned at the kind of focus that puts on women.
Things that make me consider it:
the relatively new practice of young girls having to wear hijabs in state contributing schools.
The fact that it's not normalised across all Muslim nations
The security aspects of the niqab
The sometimes extreme differences with boys and men of the same culture.
The lengths some men will go to to establish their separate and enhanced role, eg. Trump's friend who wants only male heads of the home to vote - in other words recognising the existence and reality of patriarchy.
Things that make me against a ban
Hijab- Prominent Muslim women for whom it is evidently a choice and a huge part of their identity
Also linked to the above - that there are no strong health aspects in our country that I'm aware of. I mean no research demonstrating adverse effects, as in the clear case of FGM? . So by what right do we remove women's options when some women insist this is their choice?

Linked to the point on patriarchy- we create more laws without the corresponding resources, at our peril. In a country where rapes are increasingly unpoliced don't we need a focus on that, and would this legislation just be a distraction from actually policing common or garden violence against women? Much as all the anti migration rhetoric can be used as a dead cat, much as grooming gangs has been used by people who actually are uninterested in public services being funded to do their jobs. .

SmugglersHaunt · 20/09/2026 19:36

One male peddler of utter cobblers giving an ‘award’ to a peddler of another type of utter cobblers. They must be so proud! 👏🏻

EasternStandard · 20/09/2026 19:37

Warmlight1 · 20/09/2026 19:25

How would you see that legislation looking?
Full body coverings banned? Covering faces banned? Or are you suggesting a clear focus on the item of clothing that is the niqab?
So I find some arguments for a legal limit of some kind persuasive but at the same time I'm concerned at the kind of focus that puts on women.
Things that make me consider it:
the relatively new practice of young girls having to wear hijabs in state contributing schools.
The fact that it's not normalised across all Muslim nations
The security aspects of the niqab
The sometimes extreme differences with boys and men of the same culture.
The lengths some men will go to to establish their separate and enhanced role, eg. Trump's friend who wants only male heads of the home to vote - in other words recognising the existence and reality of patriarchy.
Things that make me against a ban
Hijab- Prominent Muslim women for whom it is evidently a choice and a huge part of their identity
Also linked to the above - that there are no strong health aspects in our country that I'm aware of. I mean no research demonstrating adverse effects, as in the clear case of FGM? . So by what right do we remove women's options when some women insist this is their choice?

Linked to the point on patriarchy- we create more laws without the corresponding resources, at our peril. In a country where rapes are increasingly unpoliced don't we need a focus on that, and would this legislation just be a distraction from actually policing common or garden violence against women? Much as all the anti migration rhetoric can be used as a dead cat, much as grooming gangs has been used by people who actually are uninterested in public services being funded to do their jobs. .

We could look to these other countries to see how it’s done

More than 20 countries across Europe, Africa, and Asia—including France, Belgium, Austria, and Sri Lanka—have enacted full or partial bans on the niqab and other full-face coverings in public spaces or government buildings.

WinterGold · 20/09/2026 19:40

EasternStandard · 20/09/2026 19:37

We could look to these other countries to see how it’s done

More than 20 countries across Europe, Africa, and Asia—including France, Belgium, Austria, and Sri Lanka—have enacted full or partial bans on the niqab and other full-face coverings in public spaces or government buildings.

And Denmark - article from 2018

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44319921

Can you believe this quote from Amnesty International?!

“Amnesty International has described the Danish vote as a "discriminatory violation of women's rights". 🙄

Women in niqab are pictured at Christiansborg Palace in Copenhagen, after the Danish Parliament banned the wearing of face veils in public, 31 May 2018

Denmark passes ban on niqabs and burkas

The country joins various other European countries in not allowing niqabs or burkas in public places.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44319921

Therattt · 20/09/2026 19:47

EasternStandard · 20/09/2026 19:37

We could look to these other countries to see how it’s done

More than 20 countries across Europe, Africa, and Asia—including France, Belgium, Austria, and Sri Lanka—have enacted full or partial bans on the niqab and other full-face coverings in public spaces or government buildings.

I actually can't see how most of the British electorate wouldn't support this. It would only benefit society as a whole.

5MinuteArgument · 20/09/2026 19:55

EasternStandard · 20/09/2026 19:37

We could look to these other countries to see how it’s done

More than 20 countries across Europe, Africa, and Asia—including France, Belgium, Austria, and Sri Lanka—have enacted full or partial bans on the niqab and other full-face coverings in public spaces or government buildings.

Exactly and liberal, progressive Denmatk enacted a ban on all face coverings including the face veil in 2018. It's a sensible move.

I just hope that as more countries enact this ban, and Britain doesn't (too many useful idiots like the archbishop in positions of power), that we don't end up being a magnet for fundamentalists and extremists.

Warmlight1 · 20/09/2026 20:10

5MinuteArgument · 20/09/2026 19:55

Exactly and liberal, progressive Denmatk enacted a ban on all face coverings including the face veil in 2018. It's a sensible move.

I just hope that as more countries enact this ban, and Britain doesn't (too many useful idiots like the archbishop in positions of power), that we don't end up being a magnet for fundamentalists and extremists.

You seem very focussed on the Archbishop, aren't you rather reading a lot into one photo in relation to her views on Niqabs? Are you aware of Archbishop Mullaly having strong views in favour of niqabs?

5MinuteArgument · 20/09/2026 20:16

Warmlight1 · 20/09/2026 20:10

You seem very focussed on the Archbishop, aren't you rather reading a lot into one photo in relation to her views on Niqabs? Are you aware of Archbishop Mullaly having strong views in favour of niqabs?

I'm only focused on the Archbishop as the photo of her presenting an award is the theme of this thread. There are plenty of other people in positions of power and institutions generally who are enabling the most fundamentalist and extreme forms of Islam to grow and thrive in the UK.

EasternStandard · 20/09/2026 20:18

5MinuteArgument · 20/09/2026 20:16

I'm only focused on the Archbishop as the photo of her presenting an award is the theme of this thread. There are plenty of other people in positions of power and institutions generally who are enabling the most fundamentalist and extreme forms of Islam to grow and thrive in the UK.

Yes true.

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