Can a 16 year old now function without any arithmetic skills at all?

[Cherrypi]

Can a teenager get through life doing no arithmetic at all? Now there's not much cash, less cooking, Google maps to calculate the next bus, money left after bills calculated for you on banking apps, no clocks etc. Has passive mental arithmetic almost been eliminated?

• I use Google and the amazing phone calulators now for perecentages.

You could get by but I think it would be a serious disadvantage. We do a lot of maths on a daily basis without thinking about it.

I am really struck by the OP’s statement that we do “no cooking”. I would argue that cooking is in fact one of life’s most important life skills, given that we need to eat to survive.

Yes. I batch cook usually so calculating quantities is a major part of that.

A lot of what you consider to be intuitive maths comes from well-embedded knowledge that has become integrated into your way of thinking and intuiting. Times tables are a good example. Once you no longer need to actively think, visualise, count, or make any effort to recall a multiplication, it becomes a fact for you in the same way that 2+2=4 is a fact that you don’t need to think about. If you are making a two-egg omelette, and your OH and DD also want one, do you have to think before you grab a half-dozen box? You have intuitively used your knowledge of times tables.

I agree that we push the complex concepts too early and too hard, but not because the children are incapable of understanding the comedies. I think where we go wrong in teaching Maths is that we make children move on before they are ready, before they have really embedded basic skills such as knowing and understanding times tables. Rote learning has its place, but it is not the only way to embed learning.

Acknowledging success is so important, yet many kids get “You clearly haven’t got this, but we don’t have the time, we need to move on.”

Can’t edit on my phone. Comedies is a typo for concepts.

At 16 I think you're not dressmaking or budgeting much. I mean no cooking from scratch. Do we need to work out the best deals as they're calculated on the shelf? You probably no longer follow a recipe, you watch a tik tok chef. You wouldn't read a timetable, Google maps will tell you when the next train or bus is arriving or it says on a digital display.

In the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, there’s a bit where one of the characters is desperately worried that because of computers, people will lose the ability to count.

Prophetic. The more people outsource their thinking, the less thinking they’ll be able to do. I’ve gone back to working out sums on paper, just for the practice.

I love Maths and it's been the most popular A levels choice for years but is it becoming an ancient language we pass on for tradition now rather than something we use everyday? So a bit like Latin. All the maths we teach is centuries old (except using a calculator which is being replaced by AI anyway)

No - not at all. Functional maths is key for everyday life. More advanced maths is an essential stepping stone for all stem careers. It also helps to develop our brains and a way of thinking.

My dc were cooking from scratch well before 16. I taught them to do so in order to embed two vital life skills at risk of being outsourced: cooking and basic maths.

Maths at a level and beyond has very very little in common with what is sometimes called numeracy - so scaling recipes, working out change, measuring things etc.

occasionally there are calls to change gcse maths into two qualifications one in numeracy and one in maths maths for want of a better description.

a bit like English language and literature.

And you certainly do need to be able to work out the best deals in the supermarket, as what is displayed on the shelf is not always clear. EG dishwasher tablet prices broken down per 100g, rather than per tablet. Or 3-for-2 on a smaller size product with no breakdown, when the larger product is actually cheaper per 100g than the offer on the smaller product. For that matter, translating between per 100g and per kilo breakdowns.

Time was the obvious daily arithmetic for me, but you said no clocks so not sure what you mean by that. You could get around it with technology, but knowing somewhere is half an hour away and I need to be there at 5:15 needs arithmetic. So does, it’s now 4pm, do I have time to wash my hair and get there for 5:15.

Other basic arithmetic I’ve used today (but appreciate most of these could be worked around/avoided):

• how many steps I need to do to meet my target
• how long I need to walk to do those steps
• how many pages are left in my book
• will I spend enough in the shop to use my card or do I need to pick up cash from home before I go

Honestly I don’t think so.

uou can easily get by without being able to do any accurate calculations in your head by using AI tools etc HOWEVER if you can’t sense check answers you are going to run into difficulties quickly - is the shopping costing 20 quid or 200 quid. Is the bus going to take 30 mins or 5hrs ( cos you set up the wrong google maps destination or had set it to walking route instead of bus route or worse you are walking but think you can get there in 30 mins as you have it set to “ bus “.

” guesstimating “ and knowing how numbers work at a basic level is kind of a “ higher tier “ skill but vital.

I'm not saying they won't occasionally be ripped off. The Asda app now has a button that can sort by price per kg. Kindle will show you time left in a chapter and book. Do we even use the numbers on a remote control anymore or a phone?

They can function, but can they thrive?

But you've not talked about work? Are they planning to live a life on benefits?

I’d have thought job choices would be fairly limited without GCSE Maths or at least Functional Skills Maths.

I would imagine you still have to do maths tests for certain roles. Even call centre ones.

I'm just thinking about being 16 for the moment not the future

Mine tries very hard but no. She bakes and cooks uses ratio and does it in her head without realising. She budgets, devises lists and sticks to the budget and calculates how much over or under she is. She can work out what amount of dosage a sheep needs based on weight and age. She can beat all of us in monopoly including me, the previous reigning queen of the extended family <not salty oh no>. She can also work out angles questions for her sister better than I can

One thing they’ll need maths for every day is working out what time they need to leave for school / college / meeting friends. The timings on Google Maps etc aren’t always accurate— you need the real-world knowledge.

I would say no.

Apart from needing a rough idea of money, everyone needs a rough idea of time. “I have to be at work at 9, a bus takes half an hour, there’s one at 8.35 and one at 8.20, which one? When do I leave the house for the 15 min walk to the stop? And I take an hour to get up, eat and get dressed, when do I get up?’

Yes that's a good one if your timetable changes a lot. Otherwise you can probably just work it out once or just be late. Everyone would need to memorise a pin at least.

approximately one third of students don’t pass gcse maths.

some of them later do obviously.

but most students that have a grade 3 manage with everyday life type maths - money change, working out how long something takes, converting between metres and cm, working out how much six of something costs, etc.

it’s only really the students who don’t grade at all about 2% get a U - that have very very low levels of numeracy to the point where they couldn’t work out change, work out how long something should take etc.

usually these are students with significant special needs who often move into employment via suppprted internships for disabled people.