Should employed counsellors provide sessions without extra pay when requested?

[peapodleaf]

I have used AI for the title. I had put 'some people at my work refusing to do this, what do you think?'

I am a counsellor. I have my own business but I also work part-time for a company (a huge, for profit organisation) where my job is to manage cases for other counsellors. I do things like sort their paperwork, approve new cases, deal with requests (such as for more sessions)liaise with companies who pay for the counselling, things like that. Another part of the job is answering calls from new counselling clients, I will assess their suitability and choose a counsellor for them.
Occasionally, we're asked to do the counselling sessions ourselves.

Out of the small team I am in who do the same job, several people have refused to do this when asked, based on the fact that we're on a low wage (I think It's £32K for a full-time employee) whereas a counselling session in this region is anything from £40-80 per hour, sometimes even more. In my private practice, for online I would charge between £45-£60 per session, whereas work offer no extra pay for it.

It's causing a bit of a ruckus, there's a divide between those of us who will and those who won't 'enthusiasm' and 'eagerness' and 'work ethic' have been thrown about by management among other terms.

I am not sure. I haven't been asked to do one for a while and when I have, I have been unable to (the client has wanted sessions on days that I am not available for example) but I am not sure where I stand if I am asked again. What do you think?

The counsellors people in my job refer to are self-employed. I know their rate of pay is good and region dependent. I am going to find out exactly what their requirements are, but I know it is much more pay per hour than we get. Caveat is of course they're not guaranteed any work, can't work an 8 hours in a stretch day every day, and do not have the same job security.

I will PM you it.
I have had similar job situations as you in the past.
They most definitely should be offering more pay for regular counselling sessions I think.

Another example is when I worked in the public sector, sometimes those on the 'front line' would be brought into the office to do admin work but retained their higher salary for their usual job.

Good point about losing those admin hours. As it is, I think all that happens is they have to scramble more to get their admin work done, maybe pass the odd task onto colleagues etc etc

I'd say it is not appropriate for the role if the job title is more admin but if you are all rquired to be quaified counsellors they might argue againstthat.

How can they afford to pay for supervision etc on that wage? They should be paying proper £££

I would say that is because we sometimes do answer the phone to new people wanting counselling, so we have to assess them and be empathic, understanding and listen to them etc.

No. For an extreme example, imagine an accountant taking a job stocking shelves for minimum wage because they are burnt out or need flexibility. Then the store asks them to start doing the books and taxes for the same wage.

Exactly. This job really for me just gives me a basic wage to pay for a roof over my head (just about). I would starve if I did it fulltime without any supplemental income.

I did this for many years but I kept a side hustle going as well so that I felt free only to work with appropriate clients and cope with dry spells. Very enjoyable but a hassle in some ways.

You should ask your professional body. Personally, I dont think it's healthy to ask counsellors to do more than full time work.

Your contract says managers can only give you extra or altered responsibilities if it fits the role you are employed for. Doing counselling sessions does not fit the role you are employed for. You’re not employed as counsellors. You’re admin. So no, you don’t do counselling sessions unless they contract and pay you for those sessions.

Irrespective of profession I would not be providing service for no reward.

Are you accredited by BACP or UKCP @peapodleaf ? I’m not a counsellor but in a closely related role in the NHS and private practice and I would speak to the professional body. The expectation that you will pick up supervision and insurance costs for work you didn’t sign on the dotted line to undertake is not good. From my observation these type of companies will take a mile if you give them an inch.

I don’t work for these sorts of companies but they are purely about money to the point of trying to cut pay any way they can and taking a very casual approach to individuals’ suitability. I have a supervisee who earned £35 per clinical hour and discovered the business customer was paying £200 for the session. The company supplying the practitioners were also doing nothing to manage risk or complexity so she was ending up using unpaid time communicating with GPs and other agencies effectively reducing her pay below the minimum wage and giving her clinical responsibility for some clients with high risk which was beyond her newly accredited experience (these clients do exist in a stressful corporate setting).

The other problem is that when they pay so little per hour (or find a way to trim what they pay to the bone) these companies end up with very inexperienced counsellors and such like or people who are not a safe pair of hands (not saying that’s the case for you OP!). I’d swerve it.

Schools often have qualified teachers in support areas, who have taken a bit of a step back. They seem to manage to pay higher cover lesson type rates when used. Same should apply here

Ok so we have that benefit, and it's a good one, as a Manager I often make sure people are aware.

I don't believe this covers anything and everything outside the admin piece. If your role is stated clearly as Admin: However, the manager can only assign duties that are appropriate to the employee’s role and position.

So it would be good to understand how your role is worded.

Frankly I think they are taking the utter piss for the multiple good reasons you've stated and I would push back hard.

You should get admin pay for the admin hours and counsellor pay for the counselling hours. They can't employ admins and then ask for a professional service at a knock-down rate. Cheeky buggers.

My organisation had to dump our previous EAP provider because of dodgy practices, how many of your clients would actually be happy with "admin" staff providing the counselling sessions, if they didn't have a supervisor or insurance? I think it is worth raising with your employer as a reputation risk, if nothing else is working.

is there any consistency as to why and when people are asked to take on a counselling case?

That's certainly something that would concern me. Are they proposing to provide you with supervision and insurance for the work? Because even if your private practice insurance potentially covers it, I'd still have concerns. And I don't suppose they'd be paying towards it!

I am sorry, I do agree but I don't see the relevance for this situation?

I am definitely going to ask the Union about it.

I don't believe there is, but it could be something I am just not privy to.

The one we have at this workplace is absolutely crap, too!

To be fair, there are actual admin staff, we are not classed as that. And we are all qualified to counsel people. But yes, supervision and insurance are an issue. I am not certain that every one of us on this team even operates a private practice, so we wouldn't necessarily have those things if we didn't need it.

I think these EAPS and agencies are often exploiting counsellors so I wouldn’t feel like helping them out, no. Obviously if it’s a charity being run on a shoestring I might feel more willing. I wonder what the senior managers and the shareholders if applicable are getting out of it?

I am qualified but not accredited. I am not sure if the affiliated counsellors (who actually counsel clients and are self-employed) have to be accredited or not.

Absolutely they do and I know 100% that they are a 'for profit' organisation disguised as one that works with people's MH as a priority.

To be honest, I took the job when I was made redundant from tutoring, hoping to find something better. I needed anything really and I have struggled to find anything better that doesn't require a long commute for not much more pay. It is an easy WFH job allowing me enough time to do other things, jobs are very hard to come by, and it is very low-demand, which has its merits. It also fits around my freelance work. So not all bad. I seem to be the only person on the team who sees through them! Most people seem very 'fluffy' and happy and proud of their role. They're lovely people on the team. Maybe I am just an olde cynic.

I will continue to look for something else, but I am reluctant to leave the house and put up with traffic and being shattered and have to pay for pet care and all that comes with that, for what will (going by adverts I see!) work out at about an extra £50per week.