Transgender person elected as Deputy Mayor in Sydney

The TRA OP has very effectively demonstrated that the members of the board aren't interested in, as you say, a bun fight and in the main hold a variety of nuanced views. (Despite the efforts of the 'I'm as GC as they come, but' contingent to claim otherwise)

I doubt it. Certainly I have no idea who the OP is, didn't notice the username. Didn't even click on the link. So that didn't influence my posts one bit.

More generally, my GC Feminist arguments are based in facts and logic and don't change based on what I think I know about the person I'm replying to.

What might change if I recognise a username or posting style as one of the groundhog day posters is how much presumption of good faith I'm prepared to extend or how much time I'm prepared to invest, but that's just a rational decision based on knowing full well I've said exactly the same things to the same poster many many times before, meaning their pretence they've never come across certain ideas or arguments or indeed data is simply exactly that, a pretence.

No, i don't. I take my words seriously. I hate name calling. I'm interested in reasoned debate and in challenging others to do the same. I'm responsible for myself and my own behaviour, not that of other people.

Your APU {Assumption Production Unit} is working overtime there as to how I and he would behave.

Oh we definitely don’t all share the same sense of shame. Some of us find it extremely shameful to promote an ideology that harms children, wants to turn single sex provision into mixed sex (which in turn will mean some women will self exclude from their own previously single sex provision) and believes that men can be lesbians.
Others don’t find that shameful at all.

@Franxi

Discrimination isn’t decision making.

Discrimination is the ability to make distinctions or discern differences. It is essential to decisionmaking.

And?

So what?!

Well, I guess it proves once again that all the complaints about trans people on this forum boil down to one thing: some people can't cope with the fact that trans people exist.

And do normal things. Have jobs, contribute to society, get happily accepted by a large section of society.

I apologise for the disappointment some of you are feeling. Because trans people are meant to be permanently angry and sex-obsessed, right? And nothing else. Just a cartoon of a human being, a temporary abberation.

Maybe confront the idea that you have a problem with difference, if something so utterly normal is newsworthy to you.

Well the only people who thought this would 'fly', as you put it, were the TRA OP and your good self. Who expressed surprise that it hadn't and then suggested the only reason it didn't is because people knew who the OP was. So that tells us quite a lot, just not what you think it does.

For the record, I didn't have any idea what they had posted previously when I posted initially.

You might want to catch up with the whole thread.

Trans women lose their societal privilege when they transition, and were always women before they came out. They have the truth of the importance of feminism spelled out to them every day.

Cis women often have ingrained sexist views, do you think they shouldn't hold office?

See, if it appears that I'm on the same side of people doing something clearly wrong, I make sure I loudly call them out to separate them from people like me who share their particular view on a topic. I especially make sure I am not seen to support them.

Well maybe you could tell me this then. Was Olly Arkins a woman 3 years ago when he used 'he/him' pronouns and the name Mitch Wilson? Or 2 years ago when, still as Mitch, he was elected. presenting as male although then using they/them pronouns? What made Olly/Mitch a woman then?

p.s. I get the impression someone pro-trans posted this, and if so then well done proving the points I made. The posts desperately trying to justify their objection to a trans person's election are quite something, and depressingly unsurprising.

Just say you hate trans people and have invented a raft of justifications, it's quicker.

But that would include you…. So by posting here you are asserting that you also align with those values I mean I’ve seen you a lot in here do is assume you were a regular member……

But then how fine olly wasn’t a TIM 2 years ago? If he was always a woman, why was he a man 2 years ago? You realise how batshit you sound claiming that 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

People don't seem able to see what's happening on this forum.

I didn't know or care who the OP was, I read the article pointed to and he seemed like a really good fit for that particular role in that particular city. I actually thought the OP was a trans phone against the appointment.

Some of the later reactions were either outright trans phobic or can very easily be read as transphobic.

The trans community appear to be feeding these threads into MN, and sitting back and waiting for the plumbs to drop from the tree that can later be used to argue how transphobic gender critical women are and how gender critical women want them erased from society and how justifiably threatened they feel by gender critical women.

This forum is being played, and many of the GC women on it aren't helping their own side with their comments.

Yes the transphobia from some people on here saddens me. Although I think we have to be careful to not tar the whole movement with one brush (I happen to think most gender critical people don't have a transphobic bone in their body).

If I know a person to be sexist, of course as a Feminist I wouldn't vote for her. Weird that you felt you needed to ask really.

Feminism isn't some free floating concept that follows the word "Woman" whoever it happens to point at, it follows the reality of the female sex, the inequalities we face because of our sex, and the social consequences that come with it.

There's deep Feminist insights associated with the experiences of and social constructs around feminised men, both those who chose to feminise and those who society forces into that role. It really illuminates the mechanisms of Patriarchy.

But these insights are only available if you recognise trans women are men.

If you try to frame the world around Gender and insist feminised men are actually, truly women, you lose these insights. You have become part of the same Patriarchal framework that Feminists are fighting to get rid of.

Do you have an equal problem with people who declare their homosexuality later in life?

Please be specific.

Say explicitly what you think should not be said even if true in case it gives angry men excuses to be angry and we can talk aboit that.

Handwaving vaguely at "Some People" saying "some things" isn't helping.

You are mistaking 'views are welcome' with 'you can post views but you will be debated on them'. Posts like these are interesting, as they show how people come at it at differen angles. It is interesting and actually very nuanced, if you bother to read the answers and think about it.

If you were an employer and you were looking to hire someone for a job, would you refuse to to hire a transwomen (even if they happen to be the most qualified candidate)? It's not a gotcha, I'm genuinely curious.

Transwomen might lose some societal standing compared when they thought of themselves as men, but they are still put above women. Every time you post, you clearly demonstrate that.

I think that is a stretch TBH. Olly wasn't living in some redneck backwater, supressing his sexuality for fear of ostracism, or unexposed to ideas around gender identity. He was politically active, in progressive circles. He was openly 'queer'. He wasn't a woman then because he isn't a woman now. It's perfectly legitimate to examine claims that he was 'always a woman', and posters who believe he was can outline why they believe that.

On your other points, there is a world of difference between saying 'transpeople should not be in public life' and saying 'we can discuss the conflicts and challenges that arise when we try and accommodate groups with vastly differing world views'. I'd have the same outlook if we were talking about extremely religious people refusing, for example, to shake hands with members of the opposite sex (if that was required of their role) or demanding they don't sit next to members of the opposite sex.

So very bored of bad faith comments like this.

I hate Sexism. Whether it's being expressed as a trans identity or a conservative exhorting the trad-wife lifestyle doesn't change that view.

No one has yet been able to explain how it's not sexist to believe that some ways of thinking, feeling or being are only right for one sex, nor why the female half of the species is less significant, less deserving of legal, social and cultural recognition, than a male's sense of self.

Until that happens, I will continue to conclude that adopting a trans identity is an intrinsically sexist act.