Thousands of non-elite women at the Great North Run got neither privacy nor fair competition

It's basically the same as doing a "wild wee" behind a tree when out in the countryside. You pull your trousers down to your shins or hitch your skirt up to your waist and squat, and your bum is pointing down at the ground with no legs or fabric between you and the ground, then you wee. In the countryside there's always a danger that the ground slope may carry the stream forwards to your feet but with a peequal the drain and floor slope ensures that doesn't happen. In the countryside you can never be sure if another rambler may suddenly appear from an unexpected direction but with a peequal you are fully screened (from just below boob height downwards) around 360 degrees so no one will see anything.

If you are having a period, need a poo, are wearing dungarees or other clothing that isn't compatible, or aren't physically fit enough to balance in a squat for 15 seconds, then you use a cubicle and you are no worse off that you would have been if the peequal wasn't provided.

The benefit of urinals, whether for men or women, is to provide a "fast lane" for those whose needs are quick to deal with, like the "5 items or less" queue at the supermarket. Complaining that they don't fully serve all possible needs rather misses the point.

If you need to wipe then have a tissue in your pocket and bin the tissue when you leave, the urinals are for liquid only, no paper.

These female urinals are brilliant for women who don't have mobility issues.

They are clean, private (other than your head, which I do think is an odd design choice as the wall could be 1' taller), quick, non-stinky.

You aren't exposed to view as each cubicle is a sort of short spiral - once in the middle of it even someone standing at the cubicle entrance wouldn't be able to see you. And they are raised up a few stairs so even tall people can't see over the top.

You don't have to strip. I have to 'free wee' a few times a year and when you squat you yank your trousers/pants well forward through your legs and pee behind them. You do need decent balance - an advantage of these is you can hold on with your other hand) but I'm 60, fat and unfit and manage.

Or go to a Portaloo...

@IwantToRetire This is a feminist forum, where it is assumed women will listen to other women. And articles like this help us hear from other women.

Being a feminist does not mean all feminists have to agree after they have listened.

If women fighting the gender critical battle continue to complain about non issues like this one, they reinforce the view of the trans lobby that they are just being hysterical and prevent the important arguments from being heard.

I ran the Great North run about 10 years ago. Many many women were just peeing in the bushes near the start. I suggest these female urinals are an improvement in terms of decency and privacy.

I have a feeling the marketing department for PEEQUALs have found this thread.

But I don't know how you stop this in a mass participation event, for the reasons others have mentioned. There have always been instances of people running in the wrong categories, not necessarily out of an intent to deceive.

I think it's about setting the expectation of fair competition. Obviously there is a limit to how much this can be monitored at a mass participation event.

As a regular hiker I'm very aware that some inequality in men's and women's urination options is just hardwired, unfortunately. You just learn to be a bit more brazen about the visibility of some parts of your body while you squat (not the actual business parts of course) - and in doing so you become a bit freer. After all, we see men's bodies when they wee on the moors, and the relative acceptability of that sight, compared with the sight of the upper parts of a woman's squatting body, is just a mutable cultural quirk.

Of course inequality still persists, because women are vulnerable to voyeurism. But the addition of PEEQUAL facilities seems to do as much as possible to mitigate that inequality by providing some shielding using a system that is compatible with the much-needed mass provision.

In addition to the barriers around the weeing women, there is, according to their website, a barrier around the whole set of facilities which (if it weren't for the idiocy of allowing trans-identified males in) make it a woman-only space, just as a normal public toilet consists of cubicles within a woman-only space.

PEEQUALs sound great to me, an admirable way of minimising the natural disadvantages women have when it comes to public weeing.

At London marathon the queue for the perquels was longer than those for the portaloos! Possibly out of curiosity? Also it’s great that sanitary products are starting to be offered at races but what about incontinence products sadly there not but I’d an issue for many female runners.

Daft that the article says "women were forced to queue for portaloos" as if this was something unusual and shocking! As others have said it is absolutely par for the course. I'm not against the "peequal" provision, however I don't know why they felt the need to say it is for "women, trans women, AFAB, and non-binary runners". Surely it would be sufficient to say it's for women.

I agree men running in the female category is a problem. But I don't know how you stop this in a mass participation event, for the reasons others have mentioned. There have always been instances of people running in the wrong categories, not necessarily out of an intent to deceive. Agree that making it easier to transfer numbers "legally" would
be a start.

Can someone who's used it explain to me how the women's urinals thing works? It seems like a good aim to try to give women a quick pee option but the logistics are challenging me. I have looked at the link and didn't find clear diagrams.

Where do your clothes go? Are you just in a little booth where someone could peer over the top or follow you in, we're relying on the fact everyone's top half can be seen to stop people doing this? Can you wipe and dispose of loo paper?

I know I'm being pedantic, but it's not an equaliser, because women and men have different needs. Arguably the reason for providing urinals for men is to prevent them just weeing everywhere, but a woman is much more vulnerable when she squats and is likely to need to remove clothing so she needs specific provision, and that's before you consider periods. (as an aside, I think that the increase in women wearing trousers in the twentieth century was linked to better toilet provision)

It's additional provision which clearly suits some women, but it's not the equivalent of a male urinal.

I think I'd be OK with the peequal provided it was in a single sex area where no blokes could watch! Shameful that men were allowed to ID into the women's category as well. IMO there is an important difference between ppl passing on race numbers against the T&Cs and permitting men to enter as women.

PEEQUAL female urinals are brilliant and it's ridiculous to call them undignified. They are a great equaliser for women who just need a quick wee just as male urinals are. Just like with male urinals you aren't fully surrounded with the privacy of a cubicle but everything that needs to be shielded from public view is shielded and you can do your wee and get going quickly. If you need to do anything more complex than a quick wee you can use a cubicle (which is equally true for men). Having peequal urinals obviously then frees up the cubicles and makes them more available for those who need them. No one is forcing anyone to use a urinal but complaining that their provision is somehow sexist is absolutely insane. They are the opposite.

for the record “forced to que for portaloos” is the absolute standard at these events! There’s usually just a big long row now a separate ‘women’s area’

there are real issues for women’s safe spaces but this isn’t it imo

Peequals are brilliant, it speeds up the process of having a wee for those of us who are happy and able to squat to use them and means less people queuing for the portaloos so also better for those who want/ need to use a fully enclosed space / seat.

I have used them at festivals and would pick them over portaloos 100% of the time! Quicker and cleaner and you can't see anyone's bits and because they are open air and chemical free they don't stink (portaloos in 30c heat are rank!). I think if you are a runner/ festival goer then you're aware that the loos aren't going to be luxurious, peequals are a welcome addition.

The article is badly written, trying to combine peequals (a welcome additional option) with self id in the womens category issue (forced upon women whether we like it or not).

The problem with your OP, @IwantToRetire is your habit of just posting up a news story without providing anything of your own to indicate what you feel is significant about the article, or what your own take is.

In this case, it has meant that the absolutely least plausible part of the Terf Times story - the suggestion that the PEEQUAL facilities are inadequate and an injustice to women - seems as much a part of your motivation for posting as the other issue highlighted, namely the wrongfulness of the non-elite part of the competition being based on self-id instead of sex.

I've seen other threads of yours go wrong in the same way. MN isn't Pinterest. We don't simply pin articles up to a noticeboard for others to view. Anyone who wants a service like that can just use Google alert, or follow whatever news sources they like.

I wouldn't normally comment on others' posting styles but you do this so often!

Please could you hold back on just posting links unless you are invested enough to provide a context that can open and orientate a discussion.

Edited to add: I notice that you even say: What's it go to do with me?
I have posted a link to an article making these assertions. Well, clearly, what it has to do with you is that you are the person posting it and can therefore be assumed to have some take on it. You can't make a post and claim it has nothing to do with you !!!

There was something similar at the Bath Half, in March. The women's urinal was open air, and raised
You could see every woman's head over the top of the barrier when they were squatting. Men were standing around (it was opposite the Men's urinal) and openly watching the women going in, and where they went. It was horrendous. Over an hour wait for the portaloos.

The Great Bristol Run only had banks and banks of portaloos, and the queues weren't too bad.

The out of race category is awful too, but compounded by people (against the rules) selling or swapping their tickets. My (female) best friend ran on a male bib number, which her neighbour had given her, as he could no longer run. The Great Bristol Run openly had people on the Strava group selling and buying tickets, explicitly against the t&c's

It's a mess.

If you look at the link I posted above, you will see it is in a cubical so nobody will see any woman’s naked body. Anyone who is not happy with this arrangement can use the portaloo as before. It is an additional option not a replacement to the portaloo so nobody is forced to use these but those who prefer can do so if they choose.

This really is a total non issue.

I’ve used peequal at a festival, also used separate traditional urinals provided for women along with funnels (?!) both were great when you just want a quick wee and the alternative was a long queue for stinky and disgusting portaloos (mixed sex).
in my experience they all have limited hand washing and sanitary disposal options, so you’re between a rock and a hard place anyway.

opening the women’s race up to male competitors is awful.

this is a feminist forum @Missey85 if anybody did want a daily whinge about feminism this is not an inappropriate venue. Better than oldclassiccar.co.uk also a fairly active forum, most popular thread is on photos of dumped and derelict cars. Why don’t you go there and tell them off for talking about cars?

Perhaps the problem is marketing this as a 'Peequal' as it doesn't create equal provision because women and men do not have the same needs.

If they said 'it's a toilet without the plumbing for you to do a poo, but if you can squat and just want to wee you might find it more pleasant and quicker than using one of the horrific portaloos ', that would be honest.

Te thing is, women have to pull down the clothes to wee, men don’t…. So women are a lot more exposed. How is this fair?

These women's urinals are used at a lot of races now, as there are thousands of people needing a wee before the race. The queues for the portaloos are always long so the urinals are a great idea for people happy to use them. The women's urinals are not the problem, the problem is allowing men to use them.

Yes men’s urinals are open air.

toilet paper - only if you’re lucky because it gets used up very quickly at all races. There is never enough. Ditto soap.

You have to see this an additional option to waiting in a very long queue to use an utterly disgusting portaloo. The portaloo is still there (for men and women) for those who prefer them. I imagine also the race organizer is trying to reduce the chances of people who don’t want to queue going behind the bushes.

Still not clear what the OP is supposed to have made up.

I commented on a major factual inaccuracy in what you posted because not everyone here is going to realise. I also told you what it is like using a portaloo at a race (utterly disgusting).

You cannot infer my opinions on the rest of what you posted because I chose not to say anything about that.