Thousands of non-elite women at the Great North Run got neither privacy nor fair competition

I ran in the GNR. Those women’s urinals are brilliant, I’ve used them at festivals too. They aren’t “holes in the ground” and they do have a type of door (but you’re squatting so can’t see anyone anyway). They are much cleaner, more hygienic and quicker for a wee than going in a portaloo, and don’t smell because they’re in the open (and only for wees). Free organic tampons and sanitary towels were provided. You can’t see into them because they are private.

Men were also “forced” to use urinals unless they wanted to queue for a portaloo. There were plenty of portaloos that anyone could use if they wanted more privacy, or a poo.

‘hoked in the ground with no doors, no privacy’ is misleading and sensationalist. By looking at the Peequalnwebsi, you can see what it looks like and joe ot works:https://www.peequal.com/how-it-works/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Have You ever taken part in a big race? It doesn’t matter how many loos the organizers providec there are never enough. One of the reasons is because most people need to wee about 3 times due to nerves before a race starts. I think tbr Perqual is probably at attempt by the race organizer to alleviate the queening problems for those who are happy to user that instead of going to a filthy smelly portaloo (they normally have wee all over the floor and very rarely have loo paper or soap - most runners know this and bring their own).

OP, what you have posted is misleading and a total non-issue.

"This is a feminist forum, where it is assumed women will listen to other women. "

Well apparently you don't because you responded to someone sharing their " lived experience " by telling them to get a grip!

The loo thing is not a feminist issue. Every race, everyone is "forced to queue for a portaloo". Organisers try to alleviate this by providing urinals. At this race, it seems they have tried to come up with an equivalent solution for women. I'd be interested to see if it works.

As for allowing transwomen to compete as women, I can see the issue there. (Personally I am so slow that coming 400th or 421st doesn't bother me much, if its a "fun run". But I can see it would be angry-making for others.)

Having looked at the website, it does seem like peequal are trying to solve problems for women at outdoor events like runs and festivals, perhaps this article has missed the mark a bit on that.

But the men in women’s race issue is the bigger news. How can it be acknowledged for the elite runners that it’s unfair to pit men against women, then act like for regular grassroots athletes, it doesn’t matter? Somehow it’s fair if you’re the 35th fastest, or the 335th? How does that work?

Screened female urinals are a great idea.

Self-id in the women's mass start? Not acceptable.

I did the GNR at the weekend and didn’t spot these urinals. I queued for a wee in a church, then had a final wee in the bush alongside many other competitors both men and women. Tbf the start of a massive race isn’t really the time for dignity or privacy for most and for those who need it there were the usual number of portaloos.

I strongly object to men running in the women’s category though. I think that’s outrageous.

Ummm… youre on a feminist forum so I would presume you want something to do with feminist s. Otherwise, why are you here? That Would be like me going on to Reddit or Bluesky and telling people complaining about things they think are offensive or transphobic that they’re “just whinging” wouldn’t it? I’d never dream of doing that because I’m not a rude arsehole however stupid and petty I think they’re posts are. .

It involves the discrimination of women, so it is a feminist issue, it being posted on a feminist thread makes all the sense in the world, to those of us who are sensible.
Those who aren't, well there's no accounting for them.
Hands up who knew that fitness is white supremacy, all you omnicause runners are racist, racist, racist. 😱

I ran it.

I was pretty enraged that the pre run literature described the urinals as being for men but the peequal for women, trans women, people assigned female at birth and non binary people. I knew I would wild wee anyway but the fact the provision was being described as equalising the toileting situation while allowing anyone into one that was nominally for women and describing the other as exclusively for men was an absolute joke.

I imagine with the mass entry is there’s no real way to stop men identifying into the wrong category. And, despite it being technically against the rules, people do sell on their numbers so you often get men running in the female category (and I imagine vis versa), people running out of age category, people who’ve identified themselves into the green ‘fast’ category who then proceed to create congestion by strolling/plodding the entire route.

it would be nice to fix it. I imagine starting with an option to transfer your number would help. We all know it happens. They haven’t got a way to police it. So the most simple solution would be to facilitate it to get people into the right category. You can already change your T-shirt size and defer your place for medical reasons so changes can be made until fairly close to the run date.

Have read the instructions you linked and I just have more questions.

Were the men's urinals also open air?

How is this different to squatting over a normal toilet? Unlike a man a woman still has to remove clothing, so this just seems like a toilet but with less privacy and plumbing.

Are drones prevented from entering the area?

Is there toilet paper?

They have bags to dispose of tampons and pads but where do you wash your hands?

I understand that it's (possibly) better than trying to find a tree to squat behind, but it just seems to emphasise that women need different provision and whatever this is is not the equivalent of either a urinal or an adequate toilet.

I commented on a major factual inaccuracy in what you posted because not everyone here is going to realise. I also told you what it is like using a portaloo at a race (utterly disgusting).

You cannot infer my opinions on the rest of what you posted because I chose not to say anything about that.

Still not clear what the OP is supposed to have made up.

Yes men’s urinals are open air.

toilet paper - only if you’re lucky because it gets used up very quickly at all races. There is never enough. Ditto soap.

You have to see this an additional option to waiting in a very long queue to use an utterly disgusting portaloo. The portaloo is still there (for men and women) for those who prefer them. I imagine also the race organizer is trying to reduce the chances of people who don’t want to queue going behind the bushes.

These women's urinals are used at a lot of races now, as there are thousands of people needing a wee before the race. The queues for the portaloos are always long so the urinals are a great idea for people happy to use them. The women's urinals are not the problem, the problem is allowing men to use them.

Te thing is, women have to pull down the clothes to wee, men don’t…. So women are a lot more exposed. How is this fair?

Perhaps the problem is marketing this as a 'Peequal' as it doesn't create equal provision because women and men do not have the same needs.

If they said 'it's a toilet without the plumbing for you to do a poo, but if you can squat and just want to wee you might find it more pleasant and quicker than using one of the horrific portaloos ', that would be honest.

I’ve used peequal at a festival, also used separate traditional urinals provided for women along with funnels (?!) both were great when you just want a quick wee and the alternative was a long queue for stinky and disgusting portaloos (mixed sex).
in my experience they all have limited hand washing and sanitary disposal options, so you’re between a rock and a hard place anyway.

opening the women’s race up to male competitors is awful.

this is a feminist forum @Missey85 if anybody did want a daily whinge about feminism this is not an inappropriate venue. Better than oldclassiccar.co.uk also a fairly active forum, most popular thread is on photos of dumped and derelict cars. Why don’t you go there and tell them off for talking about cars?

If you look at the link I posted above, you will see it is in a cubical so nobody will see any woman’s naked body. Anyone who is not happy with this arrangement can use the portaloo as before. It is an additional option not a replacement to the portaloo so nobody is forced to use these but those who prefer can do so if they choose.

This really is a total non issue.

There was something similar at the Bath Half, in March. The women's urinal was open air, and raised
You could see every woman's head over the top of the barrier when they were squatting. Men were standing around (it was opposite the Men's urinal) and openly watching the women going in, and where they went. It was horrendous. Over an hour wait for the portaloos.

The Great Bristol Run only had banks and banks of portaloos, and the queues weren't too bad.

The out of race category is awful too, but compounded by people (against the rules) selling or swapping their tickets. My (female) best friend ran on a male bib number, which her neighbour had given her, as he could no longer run. The Great Bristol Run openly had people on the Strava group selling and buying tickets, explicitly against the t&c's

It's a mess.

The problem with your OP, @IwantToRetire is your habit of just posting up a news story without providing anything of your own to indicate what you feel is significant about the article, or what your own take is.

In this case, it has meant that the absolutely least plausible part of the Terf Times story - the suggestion that the PEEQUAL facilities are inadequate and an injustice to women - seems as much a part of your motivation for posting as the other issue highlighted, namely the wrongfulness of the non-elite part of the competition being based on self-id instead of sex.

I've seen other threads of yours go wrong in the same way. MN isn't Pinterest. We don't simply pin articles up to a noticeboard for others to view. Anyone who wants a service like that can just use Google alert, or follow whatever news sources they like.

I wouldn't normally comment on others' posting styles but you do this so often!

Please could you hold back on just posting links unless you are invested enough to provide a context that can open and orientate a discussion.

Edited to add: I notice that you even say: What's it go to do with me?
I have posted a link to an article making these assertions. Well, clearly, what it has to do with you is that you are the person posting it and can therefore be assumed to have some take on it. You can't make a post and claim it has nothing to do with you !!!

Peequals are brilliant, it speeds up the process of having a wee for those of us who are happy and able to squat to use them and means less people queuing for the portaloos so also better for those who want/ need to use a fully enclosed space / seat.

I have used them at festivals and would pick them over portaloos 100% of the time! Quicker and cleaner and you can't see anyone's bits and because they are open air and chemical free they don't stink (portaloos in 30c heat are rank!). I think if you are a runner/ festival goer then you're aware that the loos aren't going to be luxurious, peequals are a welcome addition.

The article is badly written, trying to combine peequals (a welcome additional option) with self id in the womens category issue (forced upon women whether we like it or not).

for the record “forced to que for portaloos” is the absolute standard at these events! There’s usually just a big long row now a separate ‘women’s area’

there are real issues for women’s safe spaces but this isn’t it imo