My work insisting I refer to a 9 year old as they/them

I think 'inner gender' is personality and 'outer gender' is sex, although it's not clear why the word gender is used instead of personality.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed seems to be a sexist person who thinks some personalities should only be available to people of one sex. So if they don't 'match' then they have to pretend to be the opposite sex.

And people only medically transition because nasty feminists like us won't use wrong sex pronouns for sexists who think that anyone stepping outside regressive gender norms should be recognised as the opposite sex.

It happened so often in school that he stopped reporting it. Some gay teachers took him under their wing and walked corridors with him when they could, and other teachers looked out for him in class. But the bus, library, canteen and other communal areas are unguardable, especially when it's a lot of kids doing it.

He used to come home every day and collapse, because of the effort required to be hypervigilant. The experience has badly scarred him. Didn't stop him being trans though.

Being transgender isn't a sexual orientation, and he was a child!

He's gay (i.e. likes men, he's a late teen now) and is trans. He's still much more 'girly' than his old mum. Because he's been supported, he feels confident enough to wear skirts, dresses, heels and make-up, secure in the knowledge that his family and friends know he's a trans boy.

Being trans isn't a sexual thing. It's literally just your inner gender not reflecting the outer. Trans boys who are given support are far less likely to bind, and many prefer to keep their breasts. If there were more public support for just accepting people's gender (and using their pronouns) without demanding their appearance reflected that gender, then fewer trans people would medically transition.

It's not about a wish to become a different gender. It's about already being that gender. Dysphoria becomes unbearable when that inner person is denied the chance to show themselves. Coming out is a relief because they can stop pretending to be someone else.

Being trans is not a paraphilia, and projecting that onto children is plain repulsive.

Being non-binary is very normal. I have always known I was different - didn't want to be a boy, though I wanted the freedoms boys had and always fought for them, but knew that 'girl' didn't fit me either. So now, I am beginning to refer to myself as non-binary.

Please tell me. Do you really, truly think that my being non-binary is a paraphilia? Any idea how that works? I'm straight, have a husband and three children. My coming out to my family was a hilarious non-event, not one of them cared and it's altered nothing. I just feel happier knowing I finally have a label which fits - because it's quietly bothered me my whole life.

How is that a paraphilia?

How is a non-binary child asking to have their pronouns respected, a paraphilia?

Seriously, how?!

It happened so often in school that he stopped reporting it. Some gay teachers took him under their wing and walked corridors with him when they could, and other teachers looked out for him in class. But the bus, library, canteen and other communal areas are unguardable, especially when it's a lot of kids doing it.

He used to come home every day and collapse, because of the effort required to be hypervigilant. The experience has badly scarred him. Didn't stop him being trans though.

Being transgender isn't a sexual orientation, and he was a child!

He's gay (i.e. likes men, he's a late teen now) and is trans. He's still much more 'girly' than his old mum. Because he's been supported, he feels confident enough to wear skirts, dresses, heels and make-up, secure in the knowledge that his family and friends know he's a trans boy.

Being trans isn't a sexual thing. It's literally just your inner gender not reflecting the outer. Trans boys who are given support are far less likely to bind, and many prefer to keep their breasts. If there were more public support for just accepting people's gender (and using their pronouns) without demanding their appearance reflected that gender, then fewer trans people would medically transition.

It's not about a wish to become a different gender. It's about already being that gender. Dysphoria becomes unbearable when that inner person is denied the chance to show themselves. Coming out is a relief because they can stop pretending to be someone else.

Being trans is not a paraphilia, and projecting that onto children is plain repulsive.

Being non-binary is very normal. I have always known I was different - didn't want to be a boy, though I wanted the freedoms boys had and always fought for them, but knew that 'girl' didn't fit me either. So now, I am beginning to refer to myself as non-binary.

Please tell me. Do you really, truly think that my being non-binary is a paraphilia? Any idea how that works? I'm straight, have a husband and three children. My coming out to my family was a hilarious non-event, not one of them cared and it's altered nothing. I just feel happier knowing I finally have a label which fits - because it's quietly bothered me my whole life.

How is that a paraphilia?

How is a non-binary child asking to have their pronouns respected, a paraphilia?

Seriously, how?!

You carried on sending your child to a school where she was seriously bullied and harassed every day to the point where she collapsed when she got home but the school just shrugged their shoulders and didn't try to stop it happening.

Why did you put your child through that?

@TransParentlyAnnoyed I'm sorry to hear your child went through a really difficult time at school. Children can be cruel to each other.

From everything you've described, it sounds like there were 3 different things going on:

1. sexual contact. Children touching your child and getting no consequence from the school for doing this. It's appalling that the school didn't address this
2. getting bullied for being different. Sadly this scenario is very common and often goes under the radar. My daughter was on the receiving end of a lot of covert bullying. She had a year out of school owing to the trauma of this and the impact that it had on her. 3) the notion that your child was/is unsafe if people don't use he/him pronouns

Muddling up 2 and 3 does nobody any favours, not least your child. From everything you've said on this thread about how evil people are for not actively using preferred pronouns, I'm going to assume that you passed on this idea to your child i.e. you and your child believed this to be bullying.

Being trans isn't a sexual thing. It's literally just your inner gender not reflecting the outer.

I don't have an inner gender or an outer gender. I used to think I did and that mine did reflect each other. When I thought more about it I realised what I had was a sex (the "outer gender" in your words, I assume) and a choice about which sexist societal expectations and limitations I wanted to push back on and which I really didn't mind (my "inner gender", I assume).

Because he's been supported, he feels confident enough to wear skirts, dresses, heels and make-up

Great!

He's gay (i.e. likes men,

What if gay men don't want to include females in their dating pool because they are homosexual (same-sex attracted) not heterosexual (opposite-sex attracted), irrespective of anyone's gender? Does this make them evil and mean your child is unsafe around them? Is their "denial" that females can be gay men a form of bullying?

Why did you put your child through that?

Don't worry. This child only exists in TPA's imagination.

You carried on sending your child to a school where she was seriously bullied and harassed every day to the point where she collapsed when she got home but the school just shrugged their shoulders and didn't try to stop it happening.

Why did you put your child through that?

Why did you put your child through that?

Don't worry. This child only exists in TPA's imagination.

I’ve never hoped more that a child is fictional.

If there were more public support for just accepting people's gender (and using their pronouns) without demanding their appearance reflected that gender, then fewer trans people would medically transition.
Hang on, I thought people had to medically transition because simply being in their 'wrong'-sexed body was unbearable to them? When did that change? I'm afraid I didn't get the memo.

Being transgender isn't a sexual orientation

Can you explain, in your own words, exactly what you think being transgender is @TransParentlyAnnoyed ?

We hear so much about what it isn't (and it obviously isn't a sexual orientation, so I don't know why you felt the need to state that), but never a definition of what it actually is.

You explicitly said to me that being trans was a paraphilia. "Real children Being impacted by an adult paraphilia" to quote you directly.

Being trans is being trans. It's who someone is, and if you aren't trans them you won't know how it feels.

I can't describe how being gay feels, or asexual, because I am neither. Yet I would never tell people they aren't, and respect that they know who they are. I can't describe how being (I'm not JK Rowling lmao.) Just because an aspect of who someone is, whether their sexuality or gender, is invisible, doesn't entitle anyone to dismiss it.

I cannot describe my sense of being nb. It's just who I am. I have always known it, and it's a huge relief to be able to name how I feel. It's important to me.

I think 'inner gender' is personality and 'outer gender' is sex, although it's not clear why the word gender is used instead of personality.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed seems to be a sexist person who thinks some personalities should only be available to people of one sex. So if they don't 'match' then they have to pretend to be the opposite sex.

And people only medically transition because nasty feminists like us won't use wrong sex pronouns for sexists who think that anyone stepping outside regressive gender norms should be recognised as the opposite sex.

How is it practical to organise society around feelings that can't be described?

I'm a feminist lmao. So is my son.

I was trying to make the points that

a) being trans is who someone is
b) it's not a costume. Lots of trans people don't conform to gender stereotypes, but are more likely to get harassed if they do this
c) trans people experience euphoria differently, and accepting them can ease it.

Discussing trans/nb people all day, demanding to know what they are - then dismissing their words when they tell you - is pretty odd behaviour.

Perhaps pursue a less destructive hobby, and one which would make you happier, than getting furious at a minority for existing? They have existed, and will exist in future, without your permission or understanding.

You explicitly said to me that being trans was a paraphilia. "Real children Being impacted by an adult paraphilia" to quote you directly.

Being trans is being trans. It's who someone is, and if you aren't trans them you won't know how it feels.

I can't describe how being gay feels, or asexual, because I am neither. Yet I would never tell people they aren't, and respect that they know who they are. I can't describe how being (I'm not JK Rowling lmao.) Just because an aspect of who someone is, whether their sexuality or gender, is invisible, doesn't entitle anyone to dismiss it.

I cannot describe my sense of being nb. It's just who I am. I have always known it, and it's a huge relief to be able to name how I feel. It's important to me.

@TransParentlyAnnoyedI’m also curious as you why you’ve chosen describe your daughter as a gay trans boy who likes to wear dresses and makeup like girls?

Might this scenario, be simply a straight girl who doesn’t want to be restrained by gender stereotypes?

Hi there.

You've chosen to describe my trans son as my daughter, so your opinion is invalid to me.

Trans/nb kids are who they say they are, and don't require adults to tell them otherwise. Adult failure of imagination - and basic respect - is not their fault.

671 new posts on 'why I'm objecting to a child being themselves'. What an amazing example of transphobia mattering more here than feminism, rape culture or anything to do with our rights.

No TPA. Humans can’t change sex. There is nothing respectful in colluding with lies. HTH