Thoughts on this tweet?

It's interesting to see how pronouns have become such a key tenet.

They seem to have at the same time, enormous and sacred power, so that we must respect them.

And concurrently, be so meaningless and insignificant, that it costs us absolutely nothing to use the ones we're told to.

It's a lot like how men being excluded from women's spaces is 'genocide'.

While women being excluded from women's spaces that have been turned into mixed sex spaces by inclusion of men is - well, their own bigoty problem, fuck them.

what, by using incorrect sex pronouns?

'she shouldn't be playing women's sport'

'he shouldn't be playing women's sport'

which one prevents people speaking directly about the problem?

I don't understand why this isn't super obvious

Yep.

I think we need to start to be very clear about what 'kind' means on any level beyond the superficial.

"It's a good job nobody is suggesting doing that then."

I think that 2a is suggesting exactly that.

2 a) No, trans women do not belong in professional sports.
b) But it’s hateful to call them men.

And the OP says clearly - "it is unkind to call them men" and 'if you aren’t comfortable using someone’s preferred pronouns the medium ground is to use they/them as it doesn’t validate anything but it also remains neutral and respectful'.

Using language that obscures the full context of what is being said fits the statement of 'It hides the problem if we can't speak directly about the problem.'

It is obvious. Hence resorting to "you should be nice/kind" and general tone policing.

Precisely because it's a way of shutting down conversation. It shames women into compliance.

I crossed that bridge of realising what utter bullshit and how much of an abuse of power it was a long time ago.

Right, so because one of the examples she uses to show the shift in perception didn't work for you, you decide her example is abhorrent and have ignored the entire premise on that basis.

It's a nonsense argument, and you know it.

Do you know that 98% of all sex crimes are committed by men? 90% of all violent crimes are committed by men, and in fact the majority of all crime is committed by men. Women's crimes tends to be shoplifting, etc, and minor in comparison.

Therefore, when deciding about risk, sex is obviously paramount.

The way to reduce risk immediately is to sex segregate.

So when you change a person's perception to view someone as female, when they are in fact male, the risk element is instantly disguised.

The article was showing how changing your perception is incredibly important.

If you say 'that woman has just gone into my daughter's toilet right after her', no one turns a hair. If you say that a man has, it's an instant red flag. And it's an instant red flag because you know they are going somewhere they shouldn't be and you know they are more of a risk. Even if you don't know the statistics.

Secondly, even if you ignore the violence, threats and horrible intimidation of transactivism to force people to change their language, the entire ideology is sexist.

Pretending that a man should access the spaces of the opposite sex, or be called the opposite sex, because he inhabits sex stereotypes is not deserving of respect.

One of the cornerstones of feminism is to eliminate sex stereotypes, why the fuck should women go out of their way to use language that reinforces them??

“One of the cornerstones of feminism is to eliminate sex stereotypes, why the fuck should women go out of their way to use language that reinforces them??”

This is another question that never gets answered.

My experience with the language bomb that is they/them:

SST: so what is Sally up to this weekend?
niece: oh, they went to the festival
SST: they? who did she go with?
niece: how could you?!! you know Sally is nb and asks for they/them!! That is so disrespectful (actual tears)
SST: but but...I really didn't know or if I did I didn't remember and Sally isn't even here so not so very horrible?
niece: (howls) but if I don't always remember and be very careful in my thoughts I might make a mistake when talking to Sally that would be really hurtful, she would hate me, you are mean etc etc
SST: (quietly because niece is clearly miserable) your friend makes you police your thoughts and utterings, in her presence and beyond?

I have simply reverted to saying “he or she” “him or her” “his or hers” instead of using neutral pronouns. It was easy years ago, and it’s easy now.

Another very topical example of the obfuscation of using wrong sex language would be:

’She just wants to bond and breastfeed her baby’

which looks very different with accurate language (I am not tackling the ‘bonding’ term in this thread at the moment as I don’t wish to derail it.).

‘He just wants to bond and feed untested secretions from his nipples to his baby’.

’She just wants to bond and breastfeed her baby’

What, that 60-year-old grandpa??

Quite.

This is a very good example. And one I experienced personally in talking to my teen a few years ago.

Nothing to see here D ... Just a woman who wants to bond and breastfeed her baby.

Nothing being hidden at all in that statement....

'They are ladies — look at their pronouns! What about this person isn't a lady?' 'Well, his penis.'
'Her penis, you fucking bigot!'

Ricky Gervais understands! 🤣🤣

Since when did women have a ‘lady penis”?
Utter madness!!

A lot of men grasp the issues quicker than women.

Probably because they have a better understanding of male motivations. And less of the tedious 'be kind' messaging has been ingrained into them from birth.

These threads frustrate me sometimes.

Someone makes the point about a lack of being nice and a lack of kindness.

Then there's a bunch of responses twisting themselves in knots trying to say they are being nice and kind or just simply justifying What's been said.

When actually the most fundamental point is that we don't actually owe any kindness in the conversation. The conversation shouldn't be centred and focused on kindness at all and that this drive for niceness only succeeds in missing the most important and central issues of the whole damn subject.

Which is precisely why we are being asked to be nice and kind in the first fucking place.

One of the crucial and essential things in a democracy is you have the difficult conversations. The ones that are most sensitive and most controversial. Because they are always the points that revolve around the most vulnerable people in our society. When we neglect to have these conversations, the law of unintended consequences means these people get harmed in some way.

These areas of topic are the most fundamental and the most foundational too because they expose the limits of equality. They expose where people do not wish to be liberal minded after all and actually it's just about what they want and what suits their interests. And this is where rights are erased and justice flounders.

The exposed vast abuses of power and unethical behaviour. They show up unhealthy balances in relationships and where a group may have second class status.

But no one seems to get this.

When someone tells you to be kind, your first response should actually be "why?" Sometimes yes it's a valid point and you lose nothing from being civil. Other tips it's not about asking you to be nice. It's about telling you to shut up before you say something that is inconvenient to the politics and vision of the world they have set rigidly in their head which they don't want questioned. If you do so it forces them to question themselves and to re-examine what they have been told. This rocks the boat. This makes them see things they thought were good as potentially harms they have been an active participant in enabling.

That's why this point matters so bloody much.

It's not about being nice. It's about whether your arguments are actually reasonable and considered.

There is little that the regulars here say that doesn't fall under the fair and reasonable banner. And that's what pisses off militant TRAs most.

Its easy to position oneself as 'moderate' after the battles have been largely won by others sacrificing their careers, safety, and reputation.

I had something similar with a young male relative.

He overheard a conversation I was having regarding a girl who ids as nb and thus wants they/them. I was getting very confused - it was to do with her travel arrangements - about how many people we were talking about, and used 'she'.

This young man reacted with absolute fury (not tears, presumably because of not being female). I am still shocked at the level of his rage, which I see partly as resulting from his cognitive dissonance.

The nb girl we were talking about wasn't there at the time. She wasn't even on the same continent.

Totally.

Women have been battered, beaten, threatened, excluded, bullied, fired and arrested.

Just to make the court reiterate what the bloody law IS.

Apart from anything else, asking for kindness now, is such a monumental fucking cheek and tells you everything you need to know about who has the power.

JK Rowling runs and funds an orphanage and a service for rape survivors, ffs, and mouth breathers on the internet want to try to harangue her about being 'kind'.

There isnt an agreed way to be 'kind' so its just used as an admonishment, generally a slightly dishonest way of saying 'shut up'.

I suppose the response I'd favour is - 'no, you'.

Helen Joyce bio on X. [My bold]

Author of book about gender-ID ideology. Show me the 3rd gamete & then we can talk.Shame needs to change sides. No, you be kind. Newsletter: Joyce Activated

The women who established women's rights in law have done an immense service for all women and girls. The time and effort and risk put in has been immense. Little by little we made gains. On behalf of many who have no idea. Thats fucking 'kind'!

But they'll be vilified as 'extreme' for failing to observe the very social niceties that were weaponised against us. By people that either fail to grasp the underlying issues or are more invested in maintaining their image as on the RSOH as super 'kind' people who never dirtied their hands with risk.

Twas ever thus.

You are saying the elephant in the room.

You are saying out loud what they all think but don't feel free to say. They don't like you being the messenger and questioning their stupidity and inability to have a straightforward conversation because they are so busy tripping over themselves to prove their virtue vanity.