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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Incel banned from womens toilets and changing rooma

59 replies

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 10:51

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd9489jewq7o

Known misogynist handed a sexual harm prevention order.

Victor scowls at the camera in a police custody picture. He has a short scruffy beard and thin scraggly hair which falls over his face.

Cheltenham incel who 'posed risk' to women handed harm order

Victor Valentine is banned from using incel websites and loitering outside women's toilets.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd9489jewq7o

OP posts:
Cheese55 · Yesterday 13:03

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:54

Well done them for not speaking out or preventing JS from getting continued opportunities to abuse more victims.

And yes, why couldn't the victims have seen through the consistent portrayal of JS as a modern day saint from across the media, politics and the royal family? It is a mystery...

In JS case many victims did report him and it was covered up. In the Rochdale grooming gangs, the girls were ignored, same with the Harrods owner.

Pleasantsort2 · Yesterday 13:01

Poor wee soul jist needs a befriender!😭

Additup · Yesterday 12:58

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:54

Well done them for not speaking out or preventing JS from getting continued opportunities to abuse more victims.

And yes, why couldn't the victims have seen through the consistent portrayal of JS as a modern day saint from across the media, politics and the royal family? It is a mystery...

That's very, very unfair. I have absolutely no idea if they spoke out or tried to have JS removed from the charity work. They certainly told all and sundry what he was like as a person.

Cheese55 · Yesterday 12:58

Additup · Yesterday 12:46

I knew someone personally who knew JS in professional capacity through his charitable work and met him a few times.

They told me JS was very openly sleazy around women in a really obvious and shocking way.

When all the revelations came out it can't have been a surprise to many I think. Even watching him on TV when much younger used to make my spider senses work overtime.

I think his extended family knew? Didn't he abuse one of the girls in his family when he would appear with gifts periodically.

Helleofabore · Yesterday 12:56

I take it that this also mean that any other male person who persists in using a female single sex provision can receive one of these orders?

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:54

Additup · Yesterday 12:46

I knew someone personally who knew JS in professional capacity through his charitable work and met him a few times.

They told me JS was very openly sleazy around women in a really obvious and shocking way.

When all the revelations came out it can't have been a surprise to many I think. Even watching him on TV when much younger used to make my spider senses work overtime.

Well done them for not speaking out or preventing JS from getting continued opportunities to abuse more victims.

And yes, why couldn't the victims have seen through the consistent portrayal of JS as a modern day saint from across the media, politics and the royal family? It is a mystery...

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:47

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 11:58

Evidence suggests women are better at identifying dark triad traits from faces.

Plus we learn to trust our instincts.

The very, very large number of victims of male predators who are known to the victim suggests this is wrong.

Additup · Yesterday 12:46

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:40

Polished/managed/curated: certainly not made out to be a monster because of his image at the time.

I knew someone personally who knew JS in professional capacity through his charitable work and met him a few times.

They told me JS was very openly sleazy around women in a really obvious and shocking way.

When all the revelations came out it can't have been a surprise to many I think. Even watching him on TV when much younger used to make my spider senses work overtime.

itwasyourshowallalong · Yesterday 12:42

Fucking hell, I didn’t realise that was an actual picture - I thought it was a really bad e-fit 😮

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:41

Additup · Yesterday 12:39

I agree, looks alone are not a reliable arbiter of intent but as soon as you're in the presence of someone rather than looking at a photo then the way they look combined with the way they behave and the way they make you feel is a very reliable arbiter of intent IMO.

Behaviour is the problem; image tells you very little. Lots of high profile offenders have immaculate public images but behave despicably.

PollyNomial · Yesterday 12:40

Cheese55 · Yesterday 11:59

I agee but Saville? Polished?

Polished/managed/curated: certainly not made out to be a monster because of his image at the time.

Additup · Yesterday 12:39

PollyNomial · Yesterday 11:47

Looks are not a reliable arbiter of intent, good or ill.

Some of the most prolific offenders coming to mind (like Epstein, Savile, Harris, al Fayed, ...) relied on their polished image to carry out their crimes.

By contrast, Christopher Jeffries was vilified in the tabloid media because he looked odd until, fortunately for the victim's family and himself, the police arrested the actual criminal.

I agree, looks alone are not a reliable arbiter of intent but as soon as you're in the presence of someone rather than looking at a photo then the way they look combined with the way they behave and the way they make you feel is a very reliable arbiter of intent IMO.

MrsOvertonsWindow · Yesterday 12:37

newrubylane · Yesterday 12:15

I'm local. Posts have appeared on local Facebook groups warning women to keep away from him. Many of the comments make it clear - humourously and otherwise - that he doesn't exactly look approachable. It hardly seems likely that this was what provoked the violence.

One person stated in comments that it was the police's job to keep him away from us, not the other way around.

I have mixed feelings on this. It's good that they're publicising that he poses a threat, but given that he has a history of breaching similar orders, locking him up would be more reassuring.

I feel particularly uncomfortable for women working in public facing roles who will have to deal with him in the course of their jobs. They've literally been warned to avoid him, but they can't.

This.
Has his previous behaviour that's prompted this not triggered previous prosecutions? And if not, why not?

DramaAndBullshit · Yesterday 12:31

BernardBlacksMolluscs · Yesterday 12:22

Why are you staring at someone in the toilet? You’re probably making them uncomfortable when they just want to pee etc.

Oh my bad Blush

Cheese55 · Yesterday 12:27

paomara · Yesterday 12:07

straight jacket and a lock up. Why should women have to avoid him, he should be taken in somewhere and treated for his psychiatric illnesses.

Hating women (or being scared of them, I'm not sure with the incels), is not seen as a psychiatric illness

BernardBlacksMolluscs · Yesterday 12:22

DramaAndBullshit · Yesterday 12:17

Oh that poor sweet poppet, we should all just smile at him and #BeKind.

Why are you staring at someone in the toilet? You’re probably making them uncomfortable when they just want to pee etc.

DramaAndBullshit · Yesterday 12:17

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 10:54

Looks vulnerable and marginalised to me.

Oh that poor sweet poppet, we should all just smile at him and #BeKind.

newrubylane · Yesterday 12:15

I'm local. Posts have appeared on local Facebook groups warning women to keep away from him. Many of the comments make it clear - humourously and otherwise - that he doesn't exactly look approachable. It hardly seems likely that this was what provoked the violence.

One person stated in comments that it was the police's job to keep him away from us, not the other way around.

I have mixed feelings on this. It's good that they're publicising that he poses a threat, but given that he has a history of breaching similar orders, locking him up would be more reassuring.

I feel particularly uncomfortable for women working in public facing roles who will have to deal with him in the course of their jobs. They've literally been warned to avoid him, but they can't.

BackToLurk · Yesterday 12:14

Cheese55 · Yesterday 11:59

I agee but Saville? Polished?

That did leap out. Although lots of women at the time described at least some of the others as sleazy. Half the problem is that women weren’t (still aren’t) listened to.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · Yesterday 12:11

I would feel quite threatened if I lived near this man (which I expect he would find enjoyable). Dear god, what makes some men like this?

paomara · Yesterday 12:07

straight jacket and a lock up. Why should women have to avoid him, he should be taken in somewhere and treated for his psychiatric illnesses.

SulkingInTheCatio · Yesterday 12:02

I saw another article where the police said they were warning women to avoid him. I seriously doubt any woman needed to be warned by the police! One look at that is all it would take 🙈😂

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 12:01

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886915300684

OP posts:
Cheese55 · Yesterday 11:59

PollyNomial · Yesterday 11:47

Looks are not a reliable arbiter of intent, good or ill.

Some of the most prolific offenders coming to mind (like Epstein, Savile, Harris, al Fayed, ...) relied on their polished image to carry out their crimes.

By contrast, Christopher Jeffries was vilified in the tabloid media because he looked odd until, fortunately for the victim's family and himself, the police arrested the actual criminal.

I agee but Saville? Polished?

ArabellaScott · Yesterday 11:58

Evidence suggests women are better at identifying dark triad traits from faces.

Plus we learn to trust our instincts.

OP posts:
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