Forced hospital transfer in labour - for induction of labour - upheld by ECHR

Shocking. But less surprising when you see where this took place. Spain’s lawmakers don’t seem to have much respect for women.

having read this it is in Spain and the article makes clear it does not apply to Britain.

You're being ridiculous and are completely out of touch.

Good on Spain for saving the baby.

Blimey - no wonder the labour stalled! I doubt anyone could birth a baby under those circumstances. The adrenaline from hearing police at the door must have been off the charts.

@CoupDeToe the hospital checks on initial hospital admission confirmed there was no problem with the birth at that time. Based on the evidence on the article it’s unclear whether this intervention by the authorities improved or increased risk for mum and baby. We would need to know more - notably theres no detail about whether the baby did have a large head as suspected. The fact it wasnt mentioned at all and that the mother sued suggests to me it was a false positive which meant the whole debacle might have been avoidable. Very sad story

ETA advice is not to get into a birthing pool until the birth is progressing so it must have completely stalled/reversed due to the police arriving.

Don't @ me. It's considered bad etiquette on this forum.

Most ordinary people would consider that the baby has some form of rights at 42+ weeks. I have read accounts on the other boards of women having stillbirths because they have ignored their doctors suggesting induction because they want to do their natural thing.

There's no point arguing with people with such extreme positions. There are so many people on this forum who think that the woman should even have a right to an abortion at 40+ weeks. I won't be back on this thread and leave you to it.

My understanding of the case is that she was not forced to have an induction, she actually didn’t have an induction, her checks at the hospital initially had not been satisfactory and she had not returned after saying she would. Their laws extend to unborn children and so between the unsatisfactory checks, failing to return & being post-term she was brought back to hospital to be checked again. Those checks were okay and so she just waited for labour to restart, and did ultimately agree to a c section. She was not forced to have an induction.

Yes, wow! That anyone should care that the baby might die as a result of stupid behaviour on the part of the mother, who appears to have been 'free birthing'! Two people are involved in childbirth, a woman and a child. Both have the right to come out of it alive.
I note that the writers of this report refer to 'women and birthing people' thus kowtowing to the most misogynistic ideology on the planet - gender identity. I am shocked that UK law allows a woman with capacity to refuse treatment that would save the life of her baby - I think this needs looking at, because that is taking bodily autonomy (which, really, we do not have) much too far. What woman answers the question, 'can we save your baby by doing a caesarian?' with 'No, I want a natural birth even if it is of a dead baby'? One would question the capacity of a woman who made such a decision.

Since when did tagging people become poor etiquette @CoupDeToe ? It's a way to ensure that a) you're responding to the right poster b) that other posters know to whom you're replying and c) that the poster to whom you're replying sees your response.

Not much point having the feature if we're not supposed to use it!

It demonstrates clearly that treating foetuses as children under Spanish law has the consequence of destroying the bodily autonomy of pregnant women and birthing persons in Spain.

I'm a bit confused about this.

I don't know what status foetuses have in the UK, but I don't think any doctor would be thinking 'It's OK folks, the baby doesn't have any rights yet, no need to worry until it does'.

She wasn't perfectly healthy but into the 43rd week of pregnancy and there was a suggestion that the baby's head was too big to pass her pelvis. And she wasn't forced to have an induction or anything else. When labour would not restart she agree to a caesarian - not sure why labour stalled but presumably had it done so at home the midwife would have called an ambulance since this might be an emergency. I am in favour of home birth but sometimes it is not possible. Baby and mother have the right to be delivered.

Doubtless she does and should therefore understands the dangers of free birthing, if that was what she was doing. Free birthing is a US practice, partly fed by the high cost of having a baby in that uncivilized country, and has resulted in mother and baby deaths and the disablement of babies. Not that I think the midwife in question would have let this happen! We have the right to do what we like to our bodies as adults. I don't think we have the right to risk the life of our unborn child.
I also don't think the UK should have allowed abortion up to the point of birth. It has always been legal to abort a baby that cannot live e.g. a baby with anencephaly, or to abort a dead baby - we did not need this legislation. Are we Roman paterfamiliases that we think we have the power of life and death over our children?

https://rcoa.ac.uk/sites/default/files/documents/2021-05/“Caesarean%20sections%20without%20consent”.pdf

And the answer is the in the UK a patient can refuse any treatment as long as they have capacity.

Yes, I agree it is barbaric. But my understanding is that the woman had already been told that her baby's head might be too big to pass her pelvis at 42+ weeks - according to evidence of a CT scan. And that means obstructed labour, of which woman and children can die. If her midwife knew the result of the scan she was being reckless to continue with a home birth.

The mother should make these decisions as long as she understands the risks. I seriously doubt any mother would risk her baby's life to maintain her bodily autonomy and right to choose what is done.

The ECHR gives a 'high margin of appreciation" on this kind of issue, which presumably is why Malta can have an almost complete ban on abortion.

Spain has much more relaxed laws on e.g. assisted suicide, so the issue seems to be less bodily autonomy and more the status of the foetus.

OP would you like to edit your first post to make it clear that she wasn’t forced to induce?

Otherwise it seems as if you didn’t read the whole story.

I was wondering about that. I use @ all the time and no-one has ever said it was poor etiquette?