BBC Pride article

Are you trying to suggest that because gay couples existed, everything was hunky dory for them in the 80s!? I can think of a few reasons why the 1980s was not a particularly happy decade for gay people.

I agree that Crewe is effectively a suburb of Manchester, and that the efforts to paint it as some sort of Royston Vasey backwater is stretching reality, but I’m not sure what your point about East Anglia is. I am as GC as they come but there is plenty of anti-gay sentiment hidden amongst the common sense on these boards which I won’t ignore.

I agree about the OP being ridiculous claiming she is unsafe in Manchester because she is a sex realist.

Aside from all the very apt and valid criticisms of the BBC feature made by previous posters, I have a minor gripe about the use of inverted commas around “gender critical”, but not around “trans”. I think this signals a lack of impartiality which is incompatible with the BBC’s stated mission. It’s like they are doubting the veracity of gender critical thinking, but without actually stating it or giving reasons why it’s dubious. But trans ideology does not get the same treatment, even though there are many well known examples of men falsely claiming to be trans in order to abuse women.

Aside from all the very apt and valid criticisms of the BBC feature made by previous posters, I have a minor gripe about the use of inverted commas around “gender critical”, but not around “trans”. I think this signals a lack of impartiality which is incompatible with the BBC’s stated mission. It’s like they are doubting the veracity of gender critical thinking, but without actually stating it or giving reasons why it’s dubious. But trans ideology does not get the same treatment, even though there are many well known examples of men falsely claiming to be trans in order to abuse women.

Aside from all the very apt and valid criticisms of the BBC feature made by previous posters, I have a minor gripe about the use of inverted commas around “gender critical”, but not around “trans”. I think this signals a lack of impartiality which is incompatible with the BBC’s stated mission. It’s like they are doubting the veracity of gender critical thinking, but without actually stating it or giving reasons why it’s dubious. But trans ideology does not get the same treatment, even though there are many well known examples of men falsely claiming to be trans in order to abuse women.

I think Bonfire Night also survived because it tapped into something very basic about that time of year. It, and Halloween, are all about facing the coming dark in various ways, and simultaneously coming to terms with death and evil and defying it with fire and light and fun.

We aren't making a big thing out of Guy Fawkes being hanged (he jumped off the scaffold to avoid being drawn and quartered - brave man), we are celebrating the rule of law over disorder and constitutional propriety over factional revolution, which is what the Gunpower Plotters thought they were about since they wanted to overthrow the Protestant monarchy of James VI and I (which is why Catholics may have a bonfire but no guy). What was almost certainly going on is that they were really inside a plot to out dissident Catholics that was organised by Robert Cecil. Anyway, we celebrate because it reminds us that generally speaking revolution, in England at least, has gone by stages and peacefully (apart from the Civil War which caused more loss of life per capita than any war until WWI and is why a lot of people who know don't like Charles I a lot).
But you are right, we don't have any celebrations. The Whitsun walks have gone as has Whitsun (thanks to Ted Heath), Easter parades, Palm Sunday parades all have disappeared. We need something to celebrate but Pride with fetish and trans activists is probably not it any more.

Are you trying to suggest that because gay couples existed, everything was hunky dory for them in the 80s!? I can think of a few reasons why the 1980s was not a particularly happy decade for gay people.

I agree that Crewe is effectively a suburb of Manchester, and that the efforts to paint it as some sort of Royston Vasey backwater is stretching reality, but I’m not sure what your point about East Anglia is. I am as GC as they come but there is plenty of anti-gay sentiment hidden amongst the common sense on these boards which I won’t ignore.

I agree about the OP being ridiculous claiming she is unsafe in Manchester because she is a sex realist.

I live in rural East Anglia, close to where I grew up. There was a gay pub (not a pub that did gay nights, a gay pub) two or three villages away from the late 80s or early 90s. There have been out gay couples in the area for at least as long.

Admittedly we're not a million miles from a mainline station that runs into London - but Crewe?

Being a woman made me more sympathetic towards minorities under attack from bigots.

Calling trans people "fetishists" is ignorant nonsense, and deeply harmful. It is why trans children ssuffer so much sexual violence, especially at school.

They're viewed as hypersexual because they've transitioned - narrow-minded adults having told their bullies that the sole motivation for being trans is sexual.

Trans men and nb people are affected by bigoted messaging just as much as trans women are. They know exactly how vulnerable they are to cis male violence, and don't feel safe at all.

Violent cis guys view trans/nb people as socially acceptable to attack - and consider raping them a victimless crime. 'Gender criticals' contribute to that by dehumanising, sexualising and vilifying trans/nb people. All hate has consequences.

I can sort of understand why people might support Pride so much because there's so little civic celebration of anything else nowadays. People don't go to church at Christmas and Easter. Traditional public festivities for things like Shrove Tuesday or May Day have largely disappeared. As far as organised festivities go in many places, it's Pride and Bonfire Night and that's it. Halloween, Christmas etc. might be made a big thing of in shops but there's no mass gatherings.

So people have a desire for community celebration, they are vaguely supportive of the LGBT (maybe secretly ashamed of their homophobic past), and so they think "why not?" as far as Pride goes.

But if you think a bit harder you start thinking "why this?" Of all the things our society could choose to celebrate, why this random small minority of people? It all seems rather bizarre and even a bit creepy.

(Then again, it's a bit weird that we still make such a big thing of the death of Guy Fawkes!)

Being a woman made me more sympathetic towards minorities under attack from bigots.

Calling trans people "fetishists" is ignorant nonsense, and deeply harmful. It is why trans children ssuffer so much sexual violence, especially at school.

They're viewed as hypersexual because they've transitioned - narrow-minded adults having told their bullies that the sole motivation for being trans is sexual.

Trans men and nb people are affected by bigoted messaging just as much as trans women are. They know exactly how vulnerable they are to cis male violence, and don't feel safe at all.

Violent cis guys view trans/nb people as socially acceptable to attack - and consider raping them a victimless crime. 'Gender criticals' contribute to that by dehumanising, sexualising and vilifying trans/nb people. All hate has consequences.

Oh no, not rainbow straws! Visible support for minorities against people who attack them for inherent characteristics they cannot change! Monsters.

Being a woman made me more sympathetic towards minorities under attack from bigots.

Calling trans people "fetishists" is ignorant nonsense, and deeply harmful. It is why trans children ssuffer so much sexual violence, especially at school.

They're viewed as hypersexual because they've transitioned - narrow-minded adults having told their bullies that the sole motivation for being trans is sexual.

Trans men and nb people are affected by bigoted messaging just as much as trans women are. They know exactly how vulnerable they are to cis male violence, and don't feel safe at all.

Violent cis guys view trans/nb people as socially acceptable to attack - and consider raping them a victimless crime. 'Gender criticals' contribute to that by dehumanising, sexualising and vilifying trans/nb people. All hate has consequences.

No mention of the fetish thing and, re. trans, not a word about its inherent homophobia (sexual racists, cotton ceiling, transing away the gay) or LGB✂️T. I expect they wanted to keep the article upbeat so wound up writing a nothing burger.

I agree with all these points. I was mostly criticising the idea that as a GC woman I am anxious when I go to Manchester.

Let's not play them at their own game. We can make legitimate criticisms without pretending that having an opposing view to the zeitgeist makes us unsafe.

Being a woman around selfish fetishists makes us unsafe, yes. But I'd argue that the women inside the fold (the so called transmen, the non binary women) are much more unsafe than we are, even if they don't acknowledge that.

Oh no, not rainbow straws! Visible support for minorities against people who attack them for inherent characteristics they cannot change! Monsters.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj63jyl09jxo

An interesting read. Manchester is my nearest city. I’m not a fan of the ugly, dirty place where I feel anxious as a GC straight woman. There does seem to be less overt support in terms of fewer pride flags flying. I think Lloyds bank was fully window dressed in rainbow colours in June, as was possibly the Halifax if I’ve remembered correctly. The Lego store has had a Lego progress flag at the back of the till for weeks. I’ve not seen anything in Starbucks though. Last year they had rainbow straws. I’d like to shop without politics and don’t see why banks and building societies need to get political. The money would be better spent supporting local LGB charities imo. And Tunnocks giveaways.

Wholly agree about not buying into the whole 'someone I disagree with is an actual threat' malarkey.

Most of this at local level isn't people wanting to stop these events from happening. It's a mix of people's experience having been trained to recognise Pride as:

A lot of this is really inappropriate in public.

This has become a corporate jolly.

This is a movement quite seriously unpleasant towards women and gay people, openly, including excluding anyone who dares to not agree with this - Pride now is actively hostile to people who wish to be openly homosexual. And to women and women's equality.

This is now dominated entirely by one political, partisan and quite extremist political view that is hostile to other views, actively seeks to remove women and gay people's legal protections and equalities, and really has quite a number of issues with child safeguarding that should be questioned

and therefore, this shouldn't be funded from local government and tax payers - because LAs have no business involving themselves in the above.

Many are becoming less keen to go or to involve themselves

And the symbol of involvement and support for it is no longer a neutral, entirely positive, lovely thing.