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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Are you tired of winning?

271 replies

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 17:43

Councils aren’t going for the ‘guidance’ and it is routinely ignored by trans people. When do you expect something to change?

OP posts:
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BackToLurk · 25/08/2026 19:20

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:16

A trans woman who doesn’t pass is going to be fine, but if someone passed it’s pretty obvious why that would be unsafe.

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So non-passing transwomen should be in the men’s. Glad we’ve cleared that up. Now why would those small amount of passing transwomen be unsafe?

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/08/2026 19:20

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:16

A trans woman who doesn’t pass is going to be fine, but if someone passed it’s pretty obvious why that would be unsafe.

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I really don't think many men pass as well as you are imagining; and even if they momentarily did,Ii imagine that most other men using the facility would either make a comment, or else just go about their business quietly.

Taztoy · 25/08/2026 19:20

BackToLurk · 25/08/2026 19:20

So non-passing transwomen should be in the men’s. Glad we’ve cleared that up. Now why would those small amount of passing transwomen be unsafe?

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Who’s saying they pass?

BackToLurk · 25/08/2026 19:21

Taztoy · 25/08/2026 19:20

Who’s saying they pass?

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The PP

Taztoy · 25/08/2026 19:22

BackToLurk · 25/08/2026 19:21

The PP

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I guarantee 99.9% of them don’t pass in real life after more than a passing glance. It’s the gait, the size of the hands and feet and 100 small tells. And that’s before they even open their mouths.

Imdunfer · 25/08/2026 19:22

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 18:54

I don’t know any trans women who are so self -hating that they would degrade themselves like that

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I use the men's in a cafe or hotel if the women's is in use. Why would I feel that was degrading?

I think also you are forgetting that these people already hate themselves so much that they cut bits off their bodies and fill themselves full of synthetic chemicals at levels that aren't meant for their bodies.

Original poster
FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:22

Taztoy · 25/08/2026 19:18

Also. Why is it obvious? Are you saying men aren’t safe to be around? And the answer to that is to let men into female single sex spaces? What planet does that make sense on?

I’m saying that for trans women who are perceived as female, it would be unsafe to share spaces with men for exactly the same reason it would be unsafe for a biological woman.

This is probably more of a niche case anyway as someone who passes will go unnoticed anyway.

OP posts:
Taztoy · 25/08/2026 19:23

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:22

I’m saying that for trans women who are perceived as female, it would be unsafe to share spaces with men for exactly the same reason it would be unsafe for a biological woman.

This is probably more of a niche case anyway as someone who passes will go unnoticed anyway.

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But they’re men. The answer is for men to behave properly. Not to give men access to women’s single sex spaces.

Original poster
FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:25

Imdunfer · 25/08/2026 19:22

I use the men's in a cafe or hotel if the women's is in use. Why would I feel that was degrading?

I think also you are forgetting that these people already hate themselves so much that they cut bits off their bodies and fill themselves full of synthetic chemicals at levels that aren't meant for their bodies.

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So you obviously think using spaces for the opposite sex is okay?

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 25/08/2026 19:26

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 18:57

Why is that undignified?

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Because it is obvious to most people that they are male people, and even though it is not a criminal act to present as the opposite sex, it is still considered very odd for a man to cross dress in public - with the obvious intention of being mistaken for a woman. It draws people's attention to greater or lesser degrees.

I often see cross dressing men in a local supermarket where I live - and I see other customers doing double-takes. It must feel very compromising ( and undignified) to be caught in a pretence, though I imagine some men are immune to the reactions of other people, being too caught up in their own imagining.

Original poster
FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:27

Taztoy · 25/08/2026 19:23

But they’re men. The answer is for men to behave properly. Not to give men access to women’s single sex spaces.

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The whole point here is that men are not going to recognise them as men. Would you say it’s safe for a biological woman to share spaces with men?

OP posts:
Taztoy · 25/08/2026 19:28

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/08/2026 19:26

Because it is obvious to most people that they are male people, and even though it is not a criminal act to present as the opposite sex, it is still considered very odd for a man to cross dress in public - with the obvious intention of being mistaken for a woman. It draws people's attention to greater or lesser degrees.

I often see cross dressing men in a local supermarket where I live - and I see other customers doing double-takes. It must feel very compromising ( and undignified) to be caught in a pretence, though I imagine some men are immune to the reactions of other people, being too caught up in their own imagining.

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They can dress however they like I don’t care. But they’re not actually women and never will be and should use single sex
provision that aligns with their sex, not their gender.

MoaningKeating · 25/08/2026 19:28

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:22

I’m saying that for trans women who are perceived as female, it would be unsafe to share spaces with men for exactly the same reason it would be unsafe for a biological woman.

This is probably more of a niche case anyway as someone who passes will go unnoticed anyway.

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Trans women in men's toilets could face violence, but not sexual violence. Much like it is for openly gay men in the men's toilets. A homophobe won't sexually assault a gay men, and a transphobe won't sexually assault a trans person.

A woman is at threat of sexual violence from males in the toilets.

Taztoy · 25/08/2026 19:29

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:27

The whole point here is that men are not going to recognise them as men. Would you say it’s safe for a biological woman to share spaces with men?

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They’re not biological women and should use the single sex provision which aligns with their sex, not their gender.

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/08/2026 19:29

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FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/08/2026 19:29

Lots of men are at risk from other men.

Still more just find men's are often in such a disgusting state they'd prefer to use the women's for the dignity of not dealing with other men's territorial shit-dumping.

If we don't open up women's resources for these men, why would we make an exception for trans "women"? Outside their own heads these men are no closer to being women than any other men are.

Apparently, OP thinks we should get rid of separate male and female provisions and replace them with "people who might feel at risk from others" and "people who might pose a risk to others" on a self identified basis.

MoaningKeating · 25/08/2026 19:30

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:27

The whole point here is that men are not going to recognise them as men. Would you say it’s safe for a biological woman to share spaces with men?

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Men don't recognise trans women as women though. Men view them as "lesser" men.

Original poster
FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:30

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/08/2026 19:26

Because it is obvious to most people that they are male people, and even though it is not a criminal act to present as the opposite sex, it is still considered very odd for a man to cross dress in public - with the obvious intention of being mistaken for a woman. It draws people's attention to greater or lesser degrees.

I often see cross dressing men in a local supermarket where I live - and I see other customers doing double-takes. It must feel very compromising ( and undignified) to be caught in a pretence, though I imagine some men are immune to the reactions of other people, being too caught up in their own imagining.

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Where do you live that it’s that common?

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 25/08/2026 19:31

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:30

Where do you live that it’s that common?

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I live in Liverpool. There's one particular supermarket where I regularly shop in which it is not uncommon, at all, to see cross dressing men; plus I see them all over town and have done for years.

Original poster
FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:32

Taztoy · 25/08/2026 19:29

They’re not biological women and should use the single sex provision which aligns with their sex, not their gender.

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Why specifically should they use the spaces for their sex? Shouldn’t gender neutral or accessible spaces be what they use?

OP posts:
Lovelyview · 25/08/2026 19:34

I have been really pleased to see clear signage on women's toilets recently. I think a lot of businesses are taking the guidelines seriously. As for trans people ignoring the signage, it's on them - but it's predatory behaviour for men to go into women's toilets and they'll increasingly get told to leave.

popery · 25/08/2026 19:34

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:32

Why specifically should they use the spaces for their sex? Shouldn’t gender neutral or accessible spaces be what they use?

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Male toilets are for all gender identities, and so are female ones. You're mixing up sex and gender again.

Why are male mixed-gender identity toilets less safe than female mixed-gender identity toilets?

Does sex exist and sometimes matter?

Taztoy · 25/08/2026 19:35

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:32

Why specifically should they use the spaces for their sex? Shouldn’t gender neutral or accessible spaces be what they use?

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They can stay the fuck right out of accessible (aka disabled) spaces unless they’re disabled.

if there’s a neutral space they can use that if they like. I don’t give a fuck where they go as long as they stay out of women’s single sex spaces, because they’re not women and disabled spaces unless they’re disabled.

im legally entitled to single sex provisions where allowed by law. And I expect those to be single sex.

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/08/2026 19:35

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:32

Why specifically should they use the spaces for their sex? Shouldn’t gender neutral or accessible spaces be what they use?

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Yes, i think the number of gender neutral/unisex facilities will increase with time. Many places already have them, alongside the single sex facilities.

TheyAreLovelyLovelyPeople · 25/08/2026 19:35

FlakyRobin · 25/08/2026 19:32

Why specifically should they use the spaces for their sex? Shouldn’t gender neutral or accessible spaces be what they use?

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You understand that gender-neutral means the same as mixed sex?