'Pregnant people'

If you are female and pregnant....

If you are pregnant...

Pregnant women and girls....

All are infinitely better than using an umbrella term to refer to 50% of the population who are the only part of the population who can get pregnant.

It's why we don't say people in healthcare if we mean black people or children, for example - even those these groups are people. If there is something that only affects one particular group then we need to use the specific, correct terms.

The term "expectant mother" was used historically as a polite, indirect way to acknowledge a pregnancy while avoiding the word "pregnant," which was considered crude or overly associated with sexual activity in conservative eras like the Victorian period.

I never knew that, although it doesn't surprise me. But I was perfectly happy to be called an expectant mother - a million times better than a pregnant person, a birther, a chest feeder... Ugh.

@Mouldemort "Pregnant people" covers both categories.

People refer to human beings of any sex. It is not limited to one sex.

FEMALES are the only sex that can become pregnant!

Nobody suggested a girl becomes a woman by becoming pregnant. Nobody. People did correctly say that only women and girls can become pregnant. There's a difference. Obviously.

A female who has reached the level of physical maturity required to get pregnant is, by definition, a woman. A young woman, certainly, but by medical definition a woman nonetheless. In the same way as a woman over 35 who is pregnant is regarded as having a 'geriatric' pregnancy, even though she is evidently not geriatric.

In medical terms, on records and in notes, a pregnant 15 year old would be referred to as female, and as experiencing adolescent gravida. No need to refer to her as a 'pregnant person' simply because she's 15 - a medical term already exists for her situation. We don't need another one.

Correct medical terms matter.

To be clear, any person who can get pregnant is to your mind a woman, and that a woman is therefore not an adult human female? Some twelve year old girls are woman? No, absolutely not. They are children.

A 12 year old who is pregnant is not a pregnant women, she's a pregnant child. Or, if you prefer, a pregnant person. You are simply arguing this wild position because you are gender critical.

Then you swerve into medical terms, when that's not what's under discussion at all. You are tying yourself in knots.

Whoosh and tbe point goes over your head.

Do you think a pregnant 12 year old girl is being somehow excluded by literature and communication that refers to women? Do you not think her situation is rather more serious than that? Do you think her situation is somehow improved by language that suggests that pregnancy could happen to anyone?

@Mouldemort “A 12 year old who is pregnant is not a pregnant women, she's a pregnant child. Or, if you prefer, a pregnant person.”

She is a pregnant girl.

Not just to my mind, I think you'll find.

Yes, a 12 year old is a child. But if she is pregnant, she has reached sexual maturity and is, for the purpose of her medical care, a woman, albeit a young woman. One who is experiencing adolescent gravida, as explained to you. Ergo, no need to call her a 'pregnant person'. We have a term already used widely by clinicians in such circumstances, as also explained previously.

Why are you so upset by the use of medical terms regarding pregnancy on a thread about pregnancy on a parenting forum? I'd imagine it's not unexpected to find such terms here? Particularly when the thread is about terms used for pregnant women. Which tend to be, y'know, a bit medical.

And there's absolutely no need to tie myself up in knots - it's not me who is doing mental gymnastics in an attempt to validate something which really isn't a thing.

I wonder if Mouldy realises the end point of his logic is that Women's toilets, changing rooms or anything else must be excluding young girls? Hilarious. In upside-downy Mouldyworld, adult men can be included in Women's spaces but female children can't. 😂

Great - wonderful - we are nearly there. You acknowledge she's a girl, not a woman. So, "pregnant women" doesn't cover all people who can get pregnant, whereas pregnant people does.

And to think, in Mouldyworld (which sounds like the shittest theme park ever btw) it's us 'tying ourselves in knots' 😂

What are you imagining?, an antenatal group where a 12 year old only feels excluded because they use the word ‘woman’? You don’t think the more isolating factor might be that it is very possible that she is a victim of rape?

Again, there is a difference between the definition of adulthood that refers to puberty and legal and social definitions of adulthood. The concept of ‘geriatric mothers’ has been explained to you at least twice, but you seem very fixated on 12 year old girls for some reason.

No, People refer to human beings of any sex. It is not limited to one sex.
FEMALES are the only sex that can become pregnant

Pregnant women or pregnant girl should be used.

We all know that only females give birth (even you know this Mouldy love, be honest). So the umbrella term 'pregnant women' for all pregnant females works just fine.

Even if you are referring to a pregnant child, it's understood that the child in question is female. Because, yep, only females get pregnant. We don't need to refer to her as a 'pregnant person', and neither should we. A child who is pregnant is very likely the victim of sexual violence and her experience is absolutely a consequence of being female. So to desex her is to diminish that experience of violence.

And I can tell you now, Mouldy, that all women are sick to death of having their experiences of violence diminished in order to make men more comfortable. Whatever our age - or the age we were when the violence occurred.

are you really suggesting this language has been introduced to spare the feelings of twelve year olds, @Mouldemort ? Because if so, what do you think about terms like “people with a cervix”? Likely to help a twelve year old girl, or totally alienate her?

Well that’s single sex sport scuppered. Somebody needs to tell the various sporting bodies that ‘woman’ and ‘man’ can only refer to a competitor of 18 or over, so if they want to allow younger competitors all events must be mixed and simply refer to ‘people’.

Its the only way.

Also, @Mouldemort, please stop pretending that it's 12 year old girls you're championing here. If that truly were so, you would understand that 12 year old girls don't want to share their school toilets and changing rooms with boys. Particularly if they have been the victims of abuse or violence, as so many 12 year old girls sadly have.

But then, you believe that we shouldn't refer to 12 year old victims of rape who become pregnant as a result as female, for fear of not being inclusive enough.

It's absolutely clear that it's not 12 year old girls that you're concerned about. Crystal clear.

To be clear, any term that excludes men is unacceptable to you. Why is this?

@Mouldemort “So, "pregnant women" doesn't cover all people who can get pregnant,”

In medical, legal, and public health contexts, the term "pregnant women" includes pregnant girls (adolescents and minors who are female).

A pregnant 12 year old girl would be under the care of a consultant or specialist midwife and she would be receiving very different information to that given to women. Pregnant people would absolutely not be the terminology used - the language would be crystal clear and would be written in a way that could be easily understood by someone of that age who is sadly very likely to come from an area of deprivation, have had one or more ACE, or have been raped.

You seem to think that language is always precise. The boundary between girl and woman depends to an extent on context. For example, the legal boundary between child and adult is different in the contexts of age of consent, what vehicles can be driven, incarceration, alcohol consumption, Gillick competency, and several others. It is quite common to refer to older girls as young women, and many of my female acquaintances have gone on "girls' nights out". My mother is a very fine old girl, and I don't think she would object to being referred as such.

There may be a valid argument that "pregnant women" should sometimes be made more specifically inclusive of pregnant girls, but most people will instinctively include girls who are old enough to become pregnant.

"Pregnant people" is just weird, as about half of us can never be, or have been, pregnant. Do we really have to dumb down language to spare the feelings of women and girls who have a notion that they would like to be men?

Generally language is most helpful for communication when it is precise, but in practice we all use context to inform our understanding. What is really egregious is deliberately altering definitions in a way that denies reality.

@RapidOnsetGenderCritic “Do we really have to dumb down language to spare the feelings of women and girls who have a notion that they would like to be men?”

Why would women who have a notion that they would like to be men, want to do something that only women can do?

Make it make sense!

You full well know it’s not trying to be inclusive of both women and girls, leave it out 🙄

It literally doesn't, which is why we use pregnant people.

@RapidOnsetGenderCritic if you are talking about pregnant women, and say "pregnant women" - that's fine. If you are talking about the entire category of people who can get pregnant, which includes girls, women, trans men and certain non-binary people, then no, pregnant women does not include them.

Pregnant people is precise and straightforward. It's much more precise than pregnant women, because that is a subset of people who can get pregnant. That is, unless you subconsciously think the default person is a man!

Pregnant women absolutely does include trans identifying females and females who prefer plural pronouns to be used about them. You’re just grasping at straws now