Lesbians- how has the GC debate affected your social spaces?

I came out later in life, so all I’ve known is a landscape in which events marketed as “for lesbians” and “for women” need to be parsed to understand how the organisers understand those terms. And similar on dating sites. I find it maddening. If I want to join a, say, lesbian hike or lesbian book club or whatever, I’d like the focus to be on the actual activity rather than the political framing of the event.

To add I am fairly masculine presenting, or butch, and have had a double mastectomy due to cancer. Around half the time in new spaces I am either misgendered or asked my pronouns or assumed to be on testosterone. It’s not offensive but I find it interesting that that’s what many people default to.

DD is 13. Many people presume she wants to be a boy.
She is a proud lesbian and feminist (and self defines as a tomboy, which I know is out of fashion now).

I have noticed though... a lot of girls her age are identifying as bisexual. Not sure this is teenagers able to express their feelings better now, or if its the latest "fad" moving kn from non binary.

The LGB Alliance is fantastic - it was really good to see so many young lesbians at their last conference.

Most grassroots lesbian groups I know have gone underground to protect themselves.

I'm not sure why 'GC debate' would affect our spaces, or why a 'straight' person would care, but my issue is that now, 'lesbian spaces' can mean that anyone of any sex or persuasion can show up. I've not been to a 'lesbian only' event in years.

Are there many lesbians on the fence?

OP, 'on the fence' about what, exactly? About whether men are actually lesbians, or just more men? Because this sounds like just another late night, 'what about the poor male lesbians' thread again.

Why do you care, OP, if you are straight?

Seems perfectly reasonable for a straight woman to care about lesbian women, just as it is reasonable for any woman to care about imprisoned women, hospitalised women, abused women, girls in care, sportswomen, etc, even if she has never experienced their situations.

I do agree, on the face of it, however, I'd like to hear from the OP. Who has not returned to the thread yet. Which is surprising, seeing as they clearly had some questions that some posters have tried to answer. Perhaps the OP will return this evening. We'll see.

this "why do you care" also sounds like what TRAs say to GC people when we bring up any concern...

To you, perhaps. To me, it sounds like a genuine question, which it is. Why should a straight person care how the 'GC debate' (and I'm still interested in to which aspect of the 'debate' the OP is referring) affects lesbian spaces? Lesbian spaces don't affect straight people, they affect lesbians. Hence my question. If it's an academic 'what if' then I'd like to know that as well.

Why are my spaces up for debate? Because men decided to take them. I'd like to hear the OP's reasoning for asking the question.

no edit

I don’t know what a GC space is? Am I going to places I shouldn’t ( or should I be going to places I’m not!) .

Good point! I don't know either! Perhaps the OP meant 'lesbian' spaces?

I’m straight, but I care about all women’s rights. To me, that includes the rights of lesbians (women who are attracted to other women in my parlance) to have spaces to themselves without men, however they identify. Also without straight women like me if that’s what they want.

I don’t think we should only care about things that directly affect us, or even indirectly affect us (men being able to guilt and bully their way into lesbian spaces probably does indirectly affect straight women, as it sets an expectation).

I hope lesbians get their single sex spaces back soon.

I understand that, and I do agree, to the extent that all women need to be concerned where there is a breach of women's rights.

My query was why the OP was bringing this up, and various other questions about definitions of terms, I suppose. Especially, 'are lesbians on the fence'? I have no idea how to respond to that without further information. The questioning seems odd to me, but perhaps that's just my perception. I suppose we'll find out if the OP comes back.

Gender critical.

Recognising that biological sex is more important than gender identity. And in the words of the late, great Magdalen Berns; THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LESBIAN WITH A PENIS!

Fair enough @BeMoreBear , we’ll see I guess.

I know what GC means.. but what is a “GC space?”

I am straight but gender critical.

Just reading through the OP again, and this is the first line. I didn't clock it at first, but perhaps the OP thinks that 'GC' means 'lesbian'?

Who knows?

However, if I hypothetically set up a “straight singles” evening and a load of men turned up demanding that straight men treat them like women, they’d be told where to go, and likely without criticism.

This has been proven to not happen as the men that want to be treated like women are still very much hetrosexual men, hence the trans lesbian BS that is happening in lesbian spaces.

But I am sure that you know this.

Yes 100% - you are right about the straight dating event.

Sorry, OP, still unclear

On the fence= not taking a side/ not caring

On the fence about what exactly?

As @FrippEnos has said re: men turned up demanding that straight men treat them like women

This, as far as I am aware, doesn't happen, or not that I have ever read. Men who think they should be treated as women pile in in lesbian events because, although they want to be seen as women, they are still men attracted to women. So they wouldn't be at a singles event wanting to date men.

Not the majority of them, however, I suppose everyone's different.

I don't think many, even if they wanted to, would dare turn up to a straight singles event expecting to date straight men. They know they'd get short shrift.

I assume, although maybe I’m wrong, that lesbian spaces, such as meeting groups, socials, festivals, and the like, have been worse affected by this issue than non-lesbian women have.

OP, I think that depends on the circumstances and on the point of view. All women have been impacted by men invading their single-sex spaces, but many lesbian groups have been put entirely out of commission.

Hypothetically, if you are a straight woman, and your main concern is privacy and safety in changing rooms, you will care just as much about that as lesbians do about their own spaces. But the changing room issues will affect lesbians as well.

But what’s a GC space?!