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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UK radical feminists; what to do?

879 replies

RealRoseCritic · 29/07/2026 15:19

So there was a question earlier today in one of my groups about TERFs in the UK, why are they so strong there, etc. Let me elaborate on something.

There is something special in mainstream British feminism that is quite different from European feminism(s), but since the English speaking internet concerns mostly the Anglosphere and not Europe, due to us having separate, isolated debates in each country/language, you won't likely ever hear how the UK is substantially different.
It is important to understand the logic of British feminism. Unlike European feminism, which is mostly inclusive and focused on stuff like equal pay, care, safe design of public space and general equity, in the UK it was always about "separate but equal".

British centres of power were always men-only, and many British feminists didn't react the way European women did (aka pushed their way into male spaces, so that these became co-ed spaces), but created their own, separate spaces, which they then aggressively policed the same way British men did with theirs. Add some Victorian prudishness and bioessentialism, that was abandoned in Europe after WWII for obvious reasons, but not in the UK, and voilà, here come British second-wave radfems and the TERFs.

I am from the Czech Republic where I currently live; I lived in Norway, Poland and the Netherlands, I speak fluently multiple European languages and understand few others; I don't say that to brag, but to show my ability to do the comparative analysis, since I study the topic closely.

Out of EU member states, only in Bulgaria and Hungary are trans rights worse than in the UK at the moment, with Hungary being expected to get substantially better soon, and in neither of those two countries are trans people, and especially trans women, as demonised as in the UK.

In all EU member states transphobia comes exclusively from far right places; it is unheard of that liberals or anyone non-far right would say what is absolutely the mainstream in the UK, including Hungary and Bulgaria.
If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

We had an attempt by a group of our far right senators to enact a bill proposal similar to what is in the UK, but the proposal was killed within a week before it could have been even voted upon in the Chamber of Deputies. Just for instance.
Scandinavian feminism is focused mostly on fair share of care and chores, German feminism focuses mostly on equal pay, Kita for everyone and the like, Polish feminism is mostly about access to abortion, Czech feminism is mostly about equal pay and safety from domestic violence - I could go on, but all in all, men are welcome to participate and the goal is to create equity for everyone, regardless of their gender. Together.
We don't get British obsession with separate spaces for women, women here are absolutely fine with the way things are, mostly because cultures in the Continent are far less prudish and overall we treat men and women as one people rather than different species.

Moreover, because of civil law rather than common law, we have different approach to legal texts and their interpretations; this makes it different too.
Not just regarding trans rights, but also regarding women's rights, I am often amazed by how much backward the UK is in so many ways compared to the EU (again, including places like Hungary, this needs to be stressed). I often see women in English-speaking debates saying things like "ugh, men" on things that actually concern problems that are specifically British and that stem mostly from both societies' tendency to separate already boys from girls, treating them differently and sexualising women in contexts we don't really see as sexual at all.

We can't really get this across the Channel, because we just don't have the power to do so. For instance Czech debate on feminism is quite isolated; it's interesting, but no more than 15 million people would ever be able to participate in it (CZ/SK) due to the language barrier, the same goes for Scandinavia (17 million), Benelux (28 million), Poland (38 million), or even DACH (95 million). It is nothing compared to half a billion people of the US, UK, CA, AU, NZ and IE that are giving tone to the worldwide debate in English.

So, if you are a British trans woman, you would do yourself a great favour if you moved to mainland Europe. You will be welcomed and cherished (for the most part).

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Gretel346 · 29/07/2026 23:23

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/07/2026 23:13

It's not that deep.

Women here are still free to say that biological sex has significant consequences especially for women. So we continue to say it.

Wonen in some other countries sadly not so much.

I would ask you though, what on earth is the point of dividing people up by gender and putting labels on their personalities?

Labelling sex makes sense - like it or not, there are meaningful differences between male and female bodies and thise difference would have consequences whether we name them.or not.

But gender? Personalities? What on earth is the point of ignoring sex but then bringing in a whole new basis for division, segregating people by personality and saying those differences are the ones that really matter?

Please, its obvious gender critical ideologues are exploiting women's safety as only a means to their personal 'complex' ends. If they were at all seriously interested in women's safety their demands for single sex spaces wouldn't be limited to spaces that have infinitesimal statistical impact as compared to the sexual violence experienced in employment, schools & dating.

Get back to us when you get consistent….which I actually wouldn't be surprised is the end goal here.

ScrollingLeaves · 29/07/2026 23:25

You have missed a lot if you think it is all only about demands for single sex spaces!

Gretel346 · 29/07/2026 23:26

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/07/2026 23:18

You do realise that there are many gender critical women in Australia? And I imagine that the general public are as dismissive of the idea that men can be women as they are here.

If there were it would be an electoral issue….but its clearly not regardless of the many attempts to make it so by local grifters. They can be found regularly on blast on social media crying how nobody cares.

Hedgehogforshort · 29/07/2026 23:28

Who is “us” Gretal, let me guess erm ???????????????????

MEN

Ereshkigalangcleg · 29/07/2026 23:28

It’s not really an electoral issue here, it just makes politicians look really fucking dishonest and stupid. See Sturgeon, David Lammy etc.

Gretel346 · 29/07/2026 23:28

Hedgehogforshort · 29/07/2026 23:21

@Gretel346 class as in social structures exist in every society right across the planet. The reason you do not recognise it as a part of Australian culture is because you do not have the social structures we have which make it very obvious. Ergo the house of Lords and the royal family and various lords and ladies.

you still have it, it called the nouveau riche over here and is considered crass.

i could go on to mention the ideation of celebs but that is a whole other book.

The difference is we aren't obsessed by it…& impose it upon others.

Gretel346 · 29/07/2026 23:34

MyAmpleSheep · 29/07/2026 23:22

Internalised misogyny perhaps that traces back to Victorian England perhaps?

A period when your ancestors were still British and living in Britain.

Colonialism & imperialism it appears, isn't just limited to land expansion but an ideological one.

And yet, it is you who are the white settlers in a foreign land.

Try harder.

A period when your ancestors were still British and living in Britain.

The difference being its not something that was maintained in Australia. Australia's history was & is one of egalitarianism hence our rapacious desire to cut off the heads of tall poppies.

And yet, it is you who are the white settlers in a foreign land.

Um, I was born here & had no choice in the matter just like the prisoner population that Britain forcibly dumped here & enslavened.

Hedgehogforshort · 29/07/2026 23:34

Gretel346 · 29/07/2026 23:28

The difference is we aren't obsessed by it…& impose it upon others.

Oh we who is this we? I know someone who would beg to differ i think her name is Sal Grover.

The other strength we have over here is cross class alliances when it comes to women's rights, so on here we are not prone to partisan politics.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/07/2026 23:47

Gretel346 · 29/07/2026 23:15

Oh, & as an example of a penchant for British vestiges is the imposition of gender critical ideology internationally. Colonialism & imperialism it appears, isn't just limited to land expansion but an ideological one. Its not enough for these ideologues to impose themselves on their own culture, but everywhere else.

LOL.

Jumped the shark now I'm afraid.

But tell me dear, why exactly is it so impossible to recognise sex as well as gender?

It's not like sex ceases to exist after all, and trans people clearly prove that sex and gender aren't the same thing, so why the weird ideological insistance that everything that used to be separated by sex now has to be left exactly the same except the segregation is based on personality instead?

It's like deciding that the word "foot" now means what we used to call a hand, but insisting these new "feet" (actually hands) have to be shoved into shoes because that's what we do with feet, right?

DrBlackbird · 29/07/2026 23:52

FFS.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/07/2026 23:53

Gretel346 · 29/07/2026 23:23

Please, its obvious gender critical ideologues are exploiting women's safety as only a means to their personal 'complex' ends. If they were at all seriously interested in women's safety their demands for single sex spaces wouldn't be limited to spaces that have infinitesimal statistical impact as compared to the sexual violence experienced in employment, schools & dating.

Get back to us when you get consistent….which I actually wouldn't be surprised is the end goal here.

LOL.

No it's not "obvious" , for the very simple reason it isn't true.

Female people exist and we matter. The spaces, rights and protections we have today are based on our sex because our sex is the reason we needed them in the first place. We are half of humanity and what is obvious is we have a moral r8ght to our own name and our own history and to speak about what it is to be us.

But y'know, you just keep on crying into the void and pretending you don't know what biological sex is.

Howse that working out for you BTW?

ProfessorBinturong · 29/07/2026 23:59

Hedgehogforshort · 29/07/2026 23:04

My knowledge of the suffragettes is thin but i think i recall there was a split where one sister became a socialist Sylvia?

There was significant working class involvement in the WSPU, including Annie Kenney and Minnie Baldock, who opened the first London branch (in Canning Town).

Of the Pankhurts, Sylvia was indeed the most active in linking the cause with the wider principles of socialism.

Working class women also played a substantial role in the early trade unions, and in Chartism.

Gretel346 · 30/07/2026 00:03

FlirtsWithRhinos · 29/07/2026 23:47

LOL.

Jumped the shark now I'm afraid.

But tell me dear, why exactly is it so impossible to recognise sex as well as gender?

It's not like sex ceases to exist after all, and trans people clearly prove that sex and gender aren't the same thing, so why the weird ideological insistance that everything that used to be separated by sex now has to be left exactly the same except the segregation is based on personality instead?

It's like deciding that the word "foot" now means what we used to call a hand, but insisting these new "feet" (actually hands) have to be shoved into shoes because that's what we do with feet, right?

Listen, I don't give a shit. By virtue of being Australian means that individuals are entitled to their individual beliefs of how they interpret the world. This is what a British imperialist mentality doesn't seem to be able to compute as a function of their inherent fascism.

We don't believe in imposing beliefs upon others. Egalitarianism is the prevailing culture because we outgrew yours….& its working for us just fine thank you very much just as unity thru equality was meant to.

murasaki · 30/07/2026 00:08

Gretel346 · 30/07/2026 00:03

Listen, I don't give a shit. By virtue of being Australian means that individuals are entitled to their individual beliefs of how they interpret the world. This is what a British imperialist mentality doesn't seem to be able to compute as a function of their inherent fascism.

We don't believe in imposing beliefs upon others. Egalitarianism is the prevailing culture because we outgrew yours….& its working for us just fine thank you very much just as unity thru equality was meant to.

You do though, otherwise women would be able to meet in groups without men, and Sal Grover wouldn't be constantly in court because Mr Tickle thinks he has the right to be viewed as a woman.

When he's very clearly a horrible man.

ScrollingLeaves · 30/07/2026 00:12

Gretel346 · 30/07/2026 00:03

Listen, I don't give a shit. By virtue of being Australian means that individuals are entitled to their individual beliefs of how they interpret the world. This is what a British imperialist mentality doesn't seem to be able to compute as a function of their inherent fascism.

We don't believe in imposing beliefs upon others. Egalitarianism is the prevailing culture because we outgrew yours….& its working for us just fine thank you very much just as unity thru equality was meant to.

You do believe in imposing beliefs on others. That’s what Tickle vs Giggle was all about.

1984Now · 30/07/2026 00:14

I guess the colonialist, imperialist, bioessentialist Brits, "the most evil people that ever existed" according to the latest Jameela Jamil hot take, that the likes of Greta and Masha are trying to promulgate here, are also to blame for all those "third genders" in the developing world being exploited and used in the West.
Strange that, because the men using them are almost wholly from European nations that our two clowns here would like to pretend are so liberated when it comes to trans issues.
Downtown Paris is absolutely a hot bed (literally and figuratively) of French, German, Dutch, Spanish men etc being so sympathetic and accepting of trans.
Throw in the mega brothels of Germany and the red light districts everywhere in the EU where European men are so modern in their attitudes to women, gays and trans, and to be frank, Britain is looking more and more an absolute oasis of sanity compared to the festering hypocrisy that is Europe as more enlightened on trans and women's rights.
Sorry if that's overly frank and full on, I just cannot stand the female cosplayers coming on here as some sort of equitable purveyors of a greater wisdom.

ProfessorBinturong · 30/07/2026 00:16

As for Australia being a model of egalitarianism ... I suspect Aboriginal and Torres Strait people may have rather strong views on that.

However, even assuming we're only talking about white Australia, it's long had a reputation for ingrained sexism. Equality legislation may have run roughly parallel with the UK in many areas, but social attitudes didn't necessarily keep up. Which tracks with hurling itself headlong into the currently fashionable version of the men's rights movement.

MyAmpleSheep · 30/07/2026 00:17

Gretel346 · 29/07/2026 23:34

A period when your ancestors were still British and living in Britain.

The difference being its not something that was maintained in Australia. Australia's history was & is one of egalitarianism hence our rapacious desire to cut off the heads of tall poppies.

And yet, it is you who are the white settlers in a foreign land.

Um, I was born here & had no choice in the matter just like the prisoner population that Britain forcibly dumped here & enslavened.

I blame white settler guilt for the situation in Canada. Far cheaper and easier to assuage guilty consciences by adopting popular leftwing causes than taking any concrete, expensive steps towards real reconciliation with First Nations.

From my perspective your postings in this thread suggest something similar: you assume the fault lies on this side and blame it on historic colonialism, which was abandoned here after world war 2 (decades before oldsters such as me were born) instead of looking hard in the mirror at your own society’s real and very present atrocious relationship with Aboriginal communities and how that may colour your attitudes.

Maybe fix your own house before lecturing us British about colonialism?

murasaki · 30/07/2026 00:21

MyAmpleSheep · 30/07/2026 00:17

I blame white settler guilt for the situation in Canada. Far cheaper and easier to assuage guilty consciences by adopting popular leftwing causes than taking any concrete, expensive steps towards real reconciliation with First Nations.

From my perspective your postings in this thread suggest something similar: you assume the fault lies on this side and blame it on historic colonialism, which was abandoned here after world war 2 (decades before oldsters such as me were born) instead of looking hard in the mirror at your own society’s real and very present atrocious relationship with Aboriginal communities and how that may colour your attitudes.

Maybe fix your own house before lecturing us British about colonialism?

Edited

Good point. Another example might be the UK legalising homosexuality (albeit ridiculously late) , but various nations colonised by the UK refusing to do so while simultaneously blaming the law's existence on the UK putting it there in the first place.

ProfessorBinturong · 30/07/2026 00:23

Far cheaper and easier to assuage guilty consciences by adopting popular leftwing causes than taking any concrete, expensive steps towards real reconciliation with First Nations.

Like the land acknowledgment announcements so popular in both countries. Looks good at first glance, but in the absence of meaningful restitution it's less of an apology and more like gloating.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/07/2026 00:25

murasaki · 30/07/2026 00:08

You do though, otherwise women would be able to meet in groups without men, and Sal Grover wouldn't be constantly in court because Mr Tickle thinks he has the right to be viewed as a woman.

When he's very clearly a horrible man.

Exactly.

Freedom to say exactly what they are told they can say.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 30/07/2026 00:28

Gretel346 · 30/07/2026 00:03

Listen, I don't give a shit. By virtue of being Australian means that individuals are entitled to their individual beliefs of how they interpret the world. This is what a British imperialist mentality doesn't seem to be able to compute as a function of their inherent fascism.

We don't believe in imposing beliefs upon others. Egalitarianism is the prevailing culture because we outgrew yours….& its working for us just fine thank you very much just as unity thru equality was meant to.

Sweetheart, caring about female people regardless of where national borders lie is Feminism not Facism 😂

I get that you don't think female people are worth caring about, but plenty of other people do.

Gretel346 · 30/07/2026 02:01

murasaki · 30/07/2026 00:08

You do though, otherwise women would be able to meet in groups without men, and Sal Grover wouldn't be constantly in court because Mr Tickle thinks he has the right to be viewed as a woman.

When he's very clearly a horrible man.

Anti discrimination laws are part & parcel of living in a free society.

Thank you for showcasing your profound ignorance of this case which was in essence regarding special exemptions to anti discrimination laws of which a social networking app doesn't qualify as….& probably wouldn't even in the UK if tested in court. What next a white's only social networking app?

Special exemptions still exist for natal women in Australia in terms of sports, prisons, refuges & hospitals btw. We just don't do dunny policing for obvious reasons to everyone else that scrutinising women's bodies isn't helpful to promoting women's equality.

MyAmpleSheep · 30/07/2026 02:05

Gretel346 · 30/07/2026 02:01

Anti discrimination laws are part & parcel of living in a free society.

Thank you for showcasing your profound ignorance of this case which was in essence regarding special exemptions to anti discrimination laws of which a social networking app doesn't qualify as….& probably wouldn't even in the UK if tested in court. What next a white's only social networking app?

Special exemptions still exist for natal women in Australia in terms of sports, prisons, refuges & hospitals btw. We just don't do dunny policing for obvious reasons to everyone else that scrutinising women's bodies isn't helpful to promoting women's equality.

Special exemptions still exist for natal women in Australia in terms of sports, prisons, refuges & hospitals btw. We just don't do dunny policing for obvious reasons

To use your own words, you clearly do do dunny policing in sports, prisons, refuges and hospitals. Why do you stop there? Why is that the correct line to draw?

Why are toilets or online apps for women different to sports, prisons, refuges and hospitals?

I don't think your "obvious" is nearly as obvious you think it is.

Gretel346 · 30/07/2026 02:19

ProfessorBinturong · 30/07/2026 00:16

As for Australia being a model of egalitarianism ... I suspect Aboriginal and Torres Strait people may have rather strong views on that.

However, even assuming we're only talking about white Australia, it's long had a reputation for ingrained sexism. Equality legislation may have run roughly parallel with the UK in many areas, but social attitudes didn't necessarily keep up. Which tracks with hurling itself headlong into the currently fashionable version of the men's rights movement.

As for Australia being a model of egalitarianism ... I suspect Aboriginal and Torres Strait people may have rather strong views on that.

If you knew anything about the Australian indigenous population (which you clearly don't) you would know that:

A: They are not a ideological monolith with some of their loudest voices being anti paternalistic.

B. That there have been substantial legal changes regarding their equal rights as citizens & recompense for 'stolen' land.

C. That the Australian tax payer (as opposed to the British who caused this mess) has been funding indigenous issues to the tune of billions of dollars for decades that has produced improvements in living standards.

D. The crux of the problem is particular to isolated communities not urban indigenous ones where entrenched generational poverty, addiction, poor education & mental health problems perpetuate by virtue of remaining in such isolated communities.

E. Indigenous people have been given the autonomy to manage their living standards programmes.

But do go on & exploit what a few poorly informed fringe activists claim as representative of what is actually going on.

Its the right wing MO isn't it? Claim that a minority of bad actors are representative of the majority when convenient? Muslims, trans people anyone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closing_the_Gap

Closing the Gap - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closing_the_Gap