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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UK radical feminists; what to do?

940 replies

RealRoseCritic · 29/07/2026 15:19

So there was a question earlier today in one of my groups about TERFs in the UK, why are they so strong there, etc. Let me elaborate on something.

There is something special in mainstream British feminism that is quite different from European feminism(s), but since the English speaking internet concerns mostly the Anglosphere and not Europe, due to us having separate, isolated debates in each country/language, you won't likely ever hear how the UK is substantially different.
It is important to understand the logic of British feminism. Unlike European feminism, which is mostly inclusive and focused on stuff like equal pay, care, safe design of public space and general equity, in the UK it was always about "separate but equal".

British centres of power were always men-only, and many British feminists didn't react the way European women did (aka pushed their way into male spaces, so that these became co-ed spaces), but created their own, separate spaces, which they then aggressively policed the same way British men did with theirs. Add some Victorian prudishness and bioessentialism, that was abandoned in Europe after WWII for obvious reasons, but not in the UK, and voilà, here come British second-wave radfems and the TERFs.

I am from the Czech Republic where I currently live; I lived in Norway, Poland and the Netherlands, I speak fluently multiple European languages and understand few others; I don't say that to brag, but to show my ability to do the comparative analysis, since I study the topic closely.

Out of EU member states, only in Bulgaria and Hungary are trans rights worse than in the UK at the moment, with Hungary being expected to get substantially better soon, and in neither of those two countries are trans people, and especially trans women, as demonised as in the UK.

In all EU member states transphobia comes exclusively from far right places; it is unheard of that liberals or anyone non-far right would say what is absolutely the mainstream in the UK, including Hungary and Bulgaria.
If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

We had an attempt by a group of our far right senators to enact a bill proposal similar to what is in the UK, but the proposal was killed within a week before it could have been even voted upon in the Chamber of Deputies. Just for instance.
Scandinavian feminism is focused mostly on fair share of care and chores, German feminism focuses mostly on equal pay, Kita for everyone and the like, Polish feminism is mostly about access to abortion, Czech feminism is mostly about equal pay and safety from domestic violence - I could go on, but all in all, men are welcome to participate and the goal is to create equity for everyone, regardless of their gender. Together.
We don't get British obsession with separate spaces for women, women here are absolutely fine with the way things are, mostly because cultures in the Continent are far less prudish and overall we treat men and women as one people rather than different species.

Moreover, because of civil law rather than common law, we have different approach to legal texts and their interpretations; this makes it different too.
Not just regarding trans rights, but also regarding women's rights, I am often amazed by how much backward the UK is in so many ways compared to the EU (again, including places like Hungary, this needs to be stressed). I often see women in English-speaking debates saying things like "ugh, men" on things that actually concern problems that are specifically British and that stem mostly from both societies' tendency to separate already boys from girls, treating them differently and sexualising women in contexts we don't really see as sexual at all.

We can't really get this across the Channel, because we just don't have the power to do so. For instance Czech debate on feminism is quite isolated; it's interesting, but no more than 15 million people would ever be able to participate in it (CZ/SK) due to the language barrier, the same goes for Scandinavia (17 million), Benelux (28 million), Poland (38 million), or even DACH (95 million). It is nothing compared to half a billion people of the US, UK, CA, AU, NZ and IE that are giving tone to the worldwide debate in English.

So, if you are a British trans woman, you would do yourself a great favour if you moved to mainland Europe. You will be welcomed and cherished (for the most part).

OP posts:
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19
KnottyAuty · 29/07/2026 17:16

RealRoseCritic · 29/07/2026 15:19

So there was a question earlier today in one of my groups about TERFs in the UK, why are they so strong there, etc. Let me elaborate on something.

There is something special in mainstream British feminism that is quite different from European feminism(s), but since the English speaking internet concerns mostly the Anglosphere and not Europe, due to us having separate, isolated debates in each country/language, you won't likely ever hear how the UK is substantially different.
It is important to understand the logic of British feminism. Unlike European feminism, which is mostly inclusive and focused on stuff like equal pay, care, safe design of public space and general equity, in the UK it was always about "separate but equal".

British centres of power were always men-only, and many British feminists didn't react the way European women did (aka pushed their way into male spaces, so that these became co-ed spaces), but created their own, separate spaces, which they then aggressively policed the same way British men did with theirs. Add some Victorian prudishness and bioessentialism, that was abandoned in Europe after WWII for obvious reasons, but not in the UK, and voilà, here come British second-wave radfems and the TERFs.

I am from the Czech Republic where I currently live; I lived in Norway, Poland and the Netherlands, I speak fluently multiple European languages and understand few others; I don't say that to brag, but to show my ability to do the comparative analysis, since I study the topic closely.

Out of EU member states, only in Bulgaria and Hungary are trans rights worse than in the UK at the moment, with Hungary being expected to get substantially better soon, and in neither of those two countries are trans people, and especially trans women, as demonised as in the UK.

In all EU member states transphobia comes exclusively from far right places; it is unheard of that liberals or anyone non-far right would say what is absolutely the mainstream in the UK, including Hungary and Bulgaria.
If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

We had an attempt by a group of our far right senators to enact a bill proposal similar to what is in the UK, but the proposal was killed within a week before it could have been even voted upon in the Chamber of Deputies. Just for instance.
Scandinavian feminism is focused mostly on fair share of care and chores, German feminism focuses mostly on equal pay, Kita for everyone and the like, Polish feminism is mostly about access to abortion, Czech feminism is mostly about equal pay and safety from domestic violence - I could go on, but all in all, men are welcome to participate and the goal is to create equity for everyone, regardless of their gender. Together.
We don't get British obsession with separate spaces for women, women here are absolutely fine with the way things are, mostly because cultures in the Continent are far less prudish and overall we treat men and women as one people rather than different species.

Moreover, because of civil law rather than common law, we have different approach to legal texts and their interpretations; this makes it different too.
Not just regarding trans rights, but also regarding women's rights, I am often amazed by how much backward the UK is in so many ways compared to the EU (again, including places like Hungary, this needs to be stressed). I often see women in English-speaking debates saying things like "ugh, men" on things that actually concern problems that are specifically British and that stem mostly from both societies' tendency to separate already boys from girls, treating them differently and sexualising women in contexts we don't really see as sexual at all.

We can't really get this across the Channel, because we just don't have the power to do so. For instance Czech debate on feminism is quite isolated; it's interesting, but no more than 15 million people would ever be able to participate in it (CZ/SK) due to the language barrier, the same goes for Scandinavia (17 million), Benelux (28 million), Poland (38 million), or even DACH (95 million). It is nothing compared to half a billion people of the US, UK, CA, AU, NZ and IE that are giving tone to the worldwide debate in English.

So, if you are a British trans woman, you would do yourself a great favour if you moved to mainland Europe. You will be welcomed and cherished (for the most part).

Most of what you said is garbled and unsubstantiated but we can definitely agree that women in the uk are strong. Our mothers and grandmothers fought hard for their rights bit by bit for the last 200 years and we won’t be easily duped out of them by a few men in dresses.

No idea why you think trans people dont have equal right to receive lower pay, be subject to the male gaze, subject to serious sexual violence and that they should start looking after the children and old people in the family. Everyone here would be happy to share those rights - we just don’t want privacy or dignity compromised…

Seethlaw · 29/07/2026 17:15

Shedmistress · 29/07/2026 17:13

Anyway.

I feel that what this forum might be missing is a new group The Euro Terfs.

First step, need a name.

I'm in!

No idea for a name, though, sorry, I suck at names and titles.

Shedmistress · 29/07/2026 17:13

Anyway.

I feel that what this forum might be missing is a new group The Euro Terfs.

First step, need a name.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 29/07/2026 17:10

Welcome to MumsNet! One difference is that we have a really good Equality Act here in the UK. Ours is capable of protecting trans people from discrimination without needing to pretend that they're really the other sex. Clever eh?

sanluca · 29/07/2026 17:09

One of the reasons women in the Netherlands aren't up in arms is that they don't have a leg to stand on. The same Dutch word is used for both sex as well as gender so there are no sex based rights, sexism is legal and there is no way to offer single sex services, sports or prisons.

Women in the Netherlands just have to work around transwomen. Doesn't mean they are accepted, just means we find other ways whilst lobbying the parties to not forget we are not men with a different hormone level.

WrongKindOfFeminist · 29/07/2026 17:09

Theeyeballsinthesky · 29/07/2026 17:04

God it's going to be looong summer holidays isn't it?

trans ppl have the same rights in the uk as every other human being does. What men can't have it's women's rights because they're fir women

I dunno. Gives us a bit of a laugh now and then.

1984Now · 29/07/2026 17:08

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 17:00

For one they don’t allow right bigots to buy out court cases or threaten legal action for anything they don’t like. AKA Joanne Rowling when Amnesty called out all the anti-rights organisations.
Two they actually follow science.
Hope this helps.

"follow science" lol.

WrongKindOfFeminist · 29/07/2026 17:07

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 17:06

I’m sorry reality is a bit confusing for you then. Do carry on in your anti trans idealogy chamber.

😄

KnottyAuty · 29/07/2026 17:06

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 16:50

The thing is with “TERFs” is that they aren’t actually feminists. They like to think they are but they are actually feminist identifying transphobes. They’ve appropriated feminism and the women’s rights movement into their anti trans idealogy which is funded by the far right and ironically male dominated organisations such as Christian funds.

Edited

Can you provide any evidence for that?

I suggest you check the YouGov polling which confirms that upwards of 80% of the uk population are sex realists - so by your definition isnt TERF island transphobic by nature?!

Why don’t you do as OP suggests and pop off to the continent for the sort of cherishing that youre not ever going to get in the UK?

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 17:06

Imdunfer · 29/07/2026 17:05

No that doesn't help at all, in fact it sounds completely unhinged.

I’m sorry reality is a bit confusing for you then. Do carry on in your anti trans idealogy chamber.

Imdunfer · 29/07/2026 17:05

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 17:00

For one they don’t allow right bigots to buy out court cases or threaten legal action for anything they don’t like. AKA Joanne Rowling when Amnesty called out all the anti-rights organisations.
Two they actually follow science.
Hope this helps.

No that doesn't help at all, in fact it sounds completely unhinged.

scienceteachersarefun · 29/07/2026 17:05

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 17:00

For one they don’t allow right bigots to buy out court cases or threaten legal action for anything they don’t like. AKA Joanne Rowling when Amnesty called out all the anti-rights organisations.
Two they actually follow science.
Hope this helps.

Oh it certainly helps to clarify who the right wing bigots are in all this 👍

1984Now · 29/07/2026 17:04

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 16:55

I’m sorry but Germany is 100% better than the UK. They understand human rights unlike the UK.

Ah, Masha, our little friend. Where have you been?
Germany gets human rights, and the UK doesn't, you say.
Well, that's told us.
What trans Ladybird type book on human rights written by Mermaids are you reading for your "information"?
Industrial quantities of men using women in brothels the size of apartment blocks, any of those men allowed to ID as women and invade the toilets those poor women might use, and then emboldened by women who daren't criticise for fear of official sanction.
Yes, that's the progressive view of human rights, so I guess you're being consistent with your worldview there.
As you see it, the rest of us will limp along in a country barely better than Afghanistan for human rights.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 29/07/2026 17:04

God it's going to be looong summer holidays isn't it?

trans ppl have the same rights in the uk as every other human being does. What men can't have it's women's rights because they're fir women

AlexaAdventuress · 29/07/2026 17:01

Where's my cheque from the Heritage Foundation? Or maybe one of the surviving Koch brothers could muster a small subvention? I've yet to see, as our American cousins call it, 'dime one'.😀

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 17:00

scienceteachersarefun · 29/07/2026 16:56

In what way does the UK not "understand human rights"?

For one they don’t allow right bigots to buy out court cases or threaten legal action for anything they don’t like. AKA Joanne Rowling when Amnesty called out all the anti-rights organisations.
Two they actually follow science.
Hope this helps.

Igneococcus · 29/07/2026 16:58

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 16:55

I’m sorry but Germany is 100% better than the UK. They understand human rights unlike the UK.

Getting your dick out in a female only space is not a human right no matter how much that pains you.

scienceteachersarefun · 29/07/2026 16:56

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 16:55

I’m sorry but Germany is 100% better than the UK. They understand human rights unlike the UK.

In what way does the UK not "understand human rights"?

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 16:55

1984Now · 29/07/2026 16:53

You only have to read Róisín Michaux/Peaked to see the binfire that is the EU and European nations re traducing women's sex based rights.
In Germany, at one end of your street you have a mega brothel with hundreds of johns visiting everyday, at the other end, places that women visit like gyms that fully allow men to use what should be female exclusive spaces, and in the middle, the most draconian anti free speech rules to punitively penalise anyone criticising self ID, trans ideology.
If that's "anti-TERF heaven", I'll take "pro-TERF hell" instead.

Edited

I’m sorry but Germany is 100% better than the UK. They understand human rights unlike the UK.

1984Now · 29/07/2026 16:53

You only have to read Róisín Michaux/Peaked to see the binfire that is the EU and European nations re traducing women's sex based rights.
In Germany, at one end of your street you have a mega brothel with hundreds of johns visiting everyday, at the other end, places that women visit like gyms that fully allow men to use what should be female exclusive spaces, and in the middle, the most draconian anti free speech rules to punitively penalise anyone criticising self ID, trans ideology.
If that's "anti-TERF heaven", I'll take "pro-TERF hell" instead.

Imdunfer · 29/07/2026 16:51

If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

@RealRoseCritic I think you'll find that British feminists have minds that are large enough to hold one view that you define as "right wing" without holding any far right views or being in any other way "aligned with far right politics", never mind 100% aligned.

It's offensive and very small minded of you to suggest otherwise.

You might have made some good points about British prudishness about bodies and bodily functions but you lost any chance of getting that message across by being offensive.

Countries where a woman cannot state that it isn't possible to change sex are oppressing women.

MashaPav · 29/07/2026 16:50

The thing is with “TERFs” is that they aren’t actually feminists. They like to think they are but they are actually feminist identifying transphobes. They’ve appropriated feminism and the women’s rights movement into their anti trans idealogy which is funded by the far right and ironically male dominated organisations such as Christian funds.

ProfessorBinturong · 29/07/2026 16:49

HPFA · 29/07/2026 16:40

I guess if there are some countries where mixed sex toilets are the norm then there's obviously going to be different flashpoints.

I doubt that polling on male people in female sport would reveal greatly different attitudes to those in the UK.

There aren't. Not in Europe, anyway. Sweden has slightly more mixed sex than single sex public loos, but they are far from universal even there. Every other European country has single sex as the majority provision.

scienceteachersarefun · 29/07/2026 16:45

Igneococcus · 29/07/2026 16:37

I never got as far down the OP's post to see the Czech Republic (I'll never get used to Czechia) mentioned, oops.

No worries 😁

BridgetYourFortyDaysAreUp · 29/07/2026 16:44

@RealRoseCritic Do you know what? I'm not even going to bother. (How many is that today?)

TERFs
pushed their way into male spaces
aggressively policed
prudishness and bioessentialism
demonised
far right
British obsession
prudish
backward
and...

"giving tone to the worldwide debate in English" (which, as a phrase, doesn't really flow well in English, so you're not as good at languages as you say you are)

Done. Bored now.

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