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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UK radical feminists; what to do?

879 replies

RealRoseCritic · 29/07/2026 15:19

So there was a question earlier today in one of my groups about TERFs in the UK, why are they so strong there, etc. Let me elaborate on something.

There is something special in mainstream British feminism that is quite different from European feminism(s), but since the English speaking internet concerns mostly the Anglosphere and not Europe, due to us having separate, isolated debates in each country/language, you won't likely ever hear how the UK is substantially different.
It is important to understand the logic of British feminism. Unlike European feminism, which is mostly inclusive and focused on stuff like equal pay, care, safe design of public space and general equity, in the UK it was always about "separate but equal".

British centres of power were always men-only, and many British feminists didn't react the way European women did (aka pushed their way into male spaces, so that these became co-ed spaces), but created their own, separate spaces, which they then aggressively policed the same way British men did with theirs. Add some Victorian prudishness and bioessentialism, that was abandoned in Europe after WWII for obvious reasons, but not in the UK, and voilà, here come British second-wave radfems and the TERFs.

I am from the Czech Republic where I currently live; I lived in Norway, Poland and the Netherlands, I speak fluently multiple European languages and understand few others; I don't say that to brag, but to show my ability to do the comparative analysis, since I study the topic closely.

Out of EU member states, only in Bulgaria and Hungary are trans rights worse than in the UK at the moment, with Hungary being expected to get substantially better soon, and in neither of those two countries are trans people, and especially trans women, as demonised as in the UK.

In all EU member states transphobia comes exclusively from far right places; it is unheard of that liberals or anyone non-far right would say what is absolutely the mainstream in the UK, including Hungary and Bulgaria.
If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

We had an attempt by a group of our far right senators to enact a bill proposal similar to what is in the UK, but the proposal was killed within a week before it could have been even voted upon in the Chamber of Deputies. Just for instance.
Scandinavian feminism is focused mostly on fair share of care and chores, German feminism focuses mostly on equal pay, Kita for everyone and the like, Polish feminism is mostly about access to abortion, Czech feminism is mostly about equal pay and safety from domestic violence - I could go on, but all in all, men are welcome to participate and the goal is to create equity for everyone, regardless of their gender. Together.
We don't get British obsession with separate spaces for women, women here are absolutely fine with the way things are, mostly because cultures in the Continent are far less prudish and overall we treat men and women as one people rather than different species.

Moreover, because of civil law rather than common law, we have different approach to legal texts and their interpretations; this makes it different too.
Not just regarding trans rights, but also regarding women's rights, I am often amazed by how much backward the UK is in so many ways compared to the EU (again, including places like Hungary, this needs to be stressed). I often see women in English-speaking debates saying things like "ugh, men" on things that actually concern problems that are specifically British and that stem mostly from both societies' tendency to separate already boys from girls, treating them differently and sexualising women in contexts we don't really see as sexual at all.

We can't really get this across the Channel, because we just don't have the power to do so. For instance Czech debate on feminism is quite isolated; it's interesting, but no more than 15 million people would ever be able to participate in it (CZ/SK) due to the language barrier, the same goes for Scandinavia (17 million), Benelux (28 million), Poland (38 million), or even DACH (95 million). It is nothing compared to half a billion people of the US, UK, CA, AU, NZ and IE that are giving tone to the worldwide debate in English.

So, if you are a British trans woman, you would do yourself a great favour if you moved to mainland Europe. You will be welcomed and cherished (for the most part).

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
WrongKindOfFeminist · 29/07/2026 15:25

Welcome to the feminist board of Mumsnet, on Terf Island, OP.

'Prudes'.

🙄

murasaki · 29/07/2026 15:28

What do you mean, what to do? Has something got lost in translation?

We know what we're doing, thanks.

AimsAndObjectives · 29/07/2026 15:29

@RealRoseCritic Out of EU member states, only in Bulgaria and Hungary are trans rights worse than in the UK at the moment,

What trans rights do you think are lacking in the UK?

RealRoseCritic · 29/07/2026 15:30

WrongKindOfFeminist · 29/07/2026 15:25

Welcome to the feminist board of Mumsnet, on Terf Island, OP.

'Prudes'.

🙄

Oh I know where I am.
The question is whether the Usual Suspects here have enough self-awareness and enough of a working moral compass left to realise where they are!

OP posts:
Seethlaw · 29/07/2026 15:30

If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

Not true at all. In France, Dora Moutot and Marguerite Stern wrote a GC book, and they are both very firmly Leftists.

Instead, what's true is that anyone proposing GC ideas is immediately dismissed as being far right, even when they absolutely are not. This is a technique used to shut down any dialogue, not a description of the facts.

murasaki · 29/07/2026 15:31

This generous offer to move to some parts of mainland Europe, regardless of the right to do so, maybe better posted on reddit, OP. I don't think we are your target audience 😂

murasaki · 29/07/2026 15:33

On all my 30 years of voting, I've never voted for a party to the right of Labour. How do you like them apples, OP?

And I still think men can't be women.

Arran2024 · 29/07/2026 15:36

Interesting analysis. But you could also argue that trans rights thrive most in countries with strongly macho cultures. And that covers large parts of Europe, for all their inroads in women's rights. Look at Belgium for example.

Women in these countries have had zero debate in most cases. They were told to accept trans women and have largely meekly done so.

The UK has a strong history of women's activism and women here have not bowed down to men's activism.

BumblebeesandPaperbags · 29/07/2026 15:38

I had a quick Google.

Percentage of parliamentary seats held by women:

UK: 40%
Hungary: 14.6%
Bulgaria: 24.5%
Poland:29.3%
Czech Republic: 26%

Women in Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic and Bulgaria seem substantially underrepresented politically, which is interesting in light of your argument.

CompleteGinasaur · 29/07/2026 15:39

Looks like the school holidays in the Czech Republic as well.

Hedgehogforshort · 29/07/2026 15:39

What a load of tripe, dressed up in a word salad of massive generalisations, which when boiled down says “trans rights are crap in the UK cos the feminists over there are all right wing bigots”

Yes okay Mr pretending to be an academic from abroad.

Hedgehogforshort · 29/07/2026 15:39

Well done bumblebee !!!

scienceteachersarefun · 29/07/2026 15:39

Genuine question, OP:
What rights do trans people have in other European countries eg. Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, that they don't have here?

SunDownMotel · 29/07/2026 15:40

No offence to any feminist academics on the boards, but I don’t give a fuck about long winded explanations of the history of feminism. Most ordinary women don’t.

And when I read stuff like this, I just see lots and lots of words being used to say what you could say in a sentence. ‘You’re doing feminism wrong’.

I also don’t understand the question you’ve wedged in at the end of your monologue. What to do? Do about what?

I know what I’m doing. Standing up for women’s sex-based rights.

NotAtMyAge · 29/07/2026 15:41

RealRoseCritic · 29/07/2026 15:19

So there was a question earlier today in one of my groups about TERFs in the UK, why are they so strong there, etc. Let me elaborate on something.

There is something special in mainstream British feminism that is quite different from European feminism(s), but since the English speaking internet concerns mostly the Anglosphere and not Europe, due to us having separate, isolated debates in each country/language, you won't likely ever hear how the UK is substantially different.
It is important to understand the logic of British feminism. Unlike European feminism, which is mostly inclusive and focused on stuff like equal pay, care, safe design of public space and general equity, in the UK it was always about "separate but equal".

British centres of power were always men-only, and many British feminists didn't react the way European women did (aka pushed their way into male spaces, so that these became co-ed spaces), but created their own, separate spaces, which they then aggressively policed the same way British men did with theirs. Add some Victorian prudishness and bioessentialism, that was abandoned in Europe after WWII for obvious reasons, but not in the UK, and voilà, here come British second-wave radfems and the TERFs.

I am from the Czech Republic where I currently live; I lived in Norway, Poland and the Netherlands, I speak fluently multiple European languages and understand few others; I don't say that to brag, but to show my ability to do the comparative analysis, since I study the topic closely.

Out of EU member states, only in Bulgaria and Hungary are trans rights worse than in the UK at the moment, with Hungary being expected to get substantially better soon, and in neither of those two countries are trans people, and especially trans women, as demonised as in the UK.

In all EU member states transphobia comes exclusively from far right places; it is unheard of that liberals or anyone non-far right would say what is absolutely the mainstream in the UK, including Hungary and Bulgaria.
If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

We had an attempt by a group of our far right senators to enact a bill proposal similar to what is in the UK, but the proposal was killed within a week before it could have been even voted upon in the Chamber of Deputies. Just for instance.
Scandinavian feminism is focused mostly on fair share of care and chores, German feminism focuses mostly on equal pay, Kita for everyone and the like, Polish feminism is mostly about access to abortion, Czech feminism is mostly about equal pay and safety from domestic violence - I could go on, but all in all, men are welcome to participate and the goal is to create equity for everyone, regardless of their gender. Together.
We don't get British obsession with separate spaces for women, women here are absolutely fine with the way things are, mostly because cultures in the Continent are far less prudish and overall we treat men and women as one people rather than different species.

Moreover, because of civil law rather than common law, we have different approach to legal texts and their interpretations; this makes it different too.
Not just regarding trans rights, but also regarding women's rights, I am often amazed by how much backward the UK is in so many ways compared to the EU (again, including places like Hungary, this needs to be stressed). I often see women in English-speaking debates saying things like "ugh, men" on things that actually concern problems that are specifically British and that stem mostly from both societies' tendency to separate already boys from girls, treating them differently and sexualising women in contexts we don't really see as sexual at all.

We can't really get this across the Channel, because we just don't have the power to do so. For instance Czech debate on feminism is quite isolated; it's interesting, but no more than 15 million people would ever be able to participate in it (CZ/SK) due to the language barrier, the same goes for Scandinavia (17 million), Benelux (28 million), Poland (38 million), or even DACH (95 million). It is nothing compared to half a billion people of the US, UK, CA, AU, NZ and IE that are giving tone to the worldwide debate in English.

So, if you are a British trans woman, you would do yourself a great favour if you moved to mainland Europe. You will be welcomed and cherished (for the most part).

Thanks for explaining British feminism to British women. 🙄I have neither the time nor the inclination to try correcting your egregiously misinformed take on the history of British feminism, but if you want to discover just how wrong, you are try reading the outstanding book I've just finished by Susanna Rustin - Sexed - a history of British feminism. It made me even more proud to be a British feminist.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sexed-History-Feminism-Susanna-Rustin/dp/1509559116

Amazon

Amazon

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sexed-History-Feminism-Susanna-Rustin/dp/1509559116?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-womens-rights-5560313-uk-radical-feminists-what-to-do

Abhannmor · 29/07/2026 15:43

You wish to encourage a massive wave of trans identified men to immigrate to eg Czechia , Hungary , Slovakia? That might be interesting. There might be some resistance from biological women who are forced to accommodate them and pander to their whims.

WrongKindOfFeminist · 29/07/2026 15:43

Arran2024 · 29/07/2026 15:36

Interesting analysis. But you could also argue that trans rights thrive most in countries with strongly macho cultures. And that covers large parts of Europe, for all their inroads in women's rights. Look at Belgium for example.

Women in these countries have had zero debate in most cases. They were told to accept trans women and have largely meekly done so.

The UK has a strong history of women's activism and women here have not bowed down to men's activism.

Iran, Malta. Both bastions of 'trans' culture, both terrible on women's rights.

Neversofaraway · 29/07/2026 15:43

The Islamist driving his car into a Pride parade suggests all is not well on continental Europe.
I'm not particularly patriotic but I am so proud to be part of Terf Island.

theilltemperedmonster · 29/07/2026 15:44

I don't think you understand UK equality law. Men and women have equal rights here, except for some very narrow and specific exceptions and exemptions, all of which arise directly or indirectly as a result of the physiological differences between the sexes.

So, men, women, transmen, transwomen: all have equal rights.

The only inexcusable exemption is the one about male primogeniture and hereditary peerages. And I'm truly sorry about that, but, you know, TERFs didn't do it.

scienceteachersarefun · 29/07/2026 15:45

Neversofaraway · 29/07/2026 15:43

The Islamist driving his car into a Pride parade suggests all is not well on continental Europe.
I'm not particularly patriotic but I am so proud to be part of Terf Island.

Indeed. It's not great being a woman in certain other parts of Europe, either.

murasaki · 29/07/2026 15:46

Switzerland only gave women the vote in federal elections in 1971, so I'm not so minded to take their views on women's rights terribly positively either.

NotAtMyAge · 29/07/2026 15:47

The only inexcusable exemption is the one about male primogeniture and hereditary peerages. And I'm truly sorry about that, but, you know, TERFs didn't do it.

And now hereditary peers have been removed from the House of Lords, even that is basically irrelevant.

CompleteGinasaur · 29/07/2026 15:47

OP seems to have vanished. Colour me shocked.

murasaki · 29/07/2026 15:48

NotAtMyAge · 29/07/2026 15:47

The only inexcusable exemption is the one about male primogeniture and hereditary peerages. And I'm truly sorry about that, but, you know, TERFs didn't do it.

And now hereditary peers have been removed from the House of Lords, even that is basically irrelevant.

Unless you want to inherit a wreck you can't afford to repair and end up selling it to the national trust!

NotAtMyAge · 29/07/2026 15:49

murasaki · 29/07/2026 15:48

Unless you want to inherit a wreck you can't afford to repair and end up selling it to the national trust!

😂😂 Fair point.

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