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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

UK radical feminists; what to do?

940 replies

RealRoseCritic · 29/07/2026 15:19

So there was a question earlier today in one of my groups about TERFs in the UK, why are they so strong there, etc. Let me elaborate on something.

There is something special in mainstream British feminism that is quite different from European feminism(s), but since the English speaking internet concerns mostly the Anglosphere and not Europe, due to us having separate, isolated debates in each country/language, you won't likely ever hear how the UK is substantially different.
It is important to understand the logic of British feminism. Unlike European feminism, which is mostly inclusive and focused on stuff like equal pay, care, safe design of public space and general equity, in the UK it was always about "separate but equal".

British centres of power were always men-only, and many British feminists didn't react the way European women did (aka pushed their way into male spaces, so that these became co-ed spaces), but created their own, separate spaces, which they then aggressively policed the same way British men did with theirs. Add some Victorian prudishness and bioessentialism, that was abandoned in Europe after WWII for obvious reasons, but not in the UK, and voilà, here come British second-wave radfems and the TERFs.

I am from the Czech Republic where I currently live; I lived in Norway, Poland and the Netherlands, I speak fluently multiple European languages and understand few others; I don't say that to brag, but to show my ability to do the comparative analysis, since I study the topic closely.

Out of EU member states, only in Bulgaria and Hungary are trans rights worse than in the UK at the moment, with Hungary being expected to get substantially better soon, and in neither of those two countries are trans people, and especially trans women, as demonised as in the UK.

In all EU member states transphobia comes exclusively from far right places; it is unheard of that liberals or anyone non-far right would say what is absolutely the mainstream in the UK, including Hungary and Bulgaria.
If you are saying the stuff JKR is saying, you are 100 % aligned with far right politics.

We had an attempt by a group of our far right senators to enact a bill proposal similar to what is in the UK, but the proposal was killed within a week before it could have been even voted upon in the Chamber of Deputies. Just for instance.
Scandinavian feminism is focused mostly on fair share of care and chores, German feminism focuses mostly on equal pay, Kita for everyone and the like, Polish feminism is mostly about access to abortion, Czech feminism is mostly about equal pay and safety from domestic violence - I could go on, but all in all, men are welcome to participate and the goal is to create equity for everyone, regardless of their gender. Together.
We don't get British obsession with separate spaces for women, women here are absolutely fine with the way things are, mostly because cultures in the Continent are far less prudish and overall we treat men and women as one people rather than different species.

Moreover, because of civil law rather than common law, we have different approach to legal texts and their interpretations; this makes it different too.
Not just regarding trans rights, but also regarding women's rights, I am often amazed by how much backward the UK is in so many ways compared to the EU (again, including places like Hungary, this needs to be stressed). I often see women in English-speaking debates saying things like "ugh, men" on things that actually concern problems that are specifically British and that stem mostly from both societies' tendency to separate already boys from girls, treating them differently and sexualising women in contexts we don't really see as sexual at all.

We can't really get this across the Channel, because we just don't have the power to do so. For instance Czech debate on feminism is quite isolated; it's interesting, but no more than 15 million people would ever be able to participate in it (CZ/SK) due to the language barrier, the same goes for Scandinavia (17 million), Benelux (28 million), Poland (38 million), or even DACH (95 million). It is nothing compared to half a billion people of the US, UK, CA, AU, NZ and IE that are giving tone to the worldwide debate in English.

So, if you are a British trans woman, you would do yourself a great favour if you moved to mainland Europe. You will be welcomed and cherished (for the most part).

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FlirtsWithRhinos · 31/07/2026 14:01

RedToothBrush · 31/07/2026 13:57

Likewise.

Funny how your mind reads something that's not there.

I always read Bailey's name as Bailey O'Nice, so his "clever" motte and bailey pun totally passed me by.

murasaki · 31/07/2026 13:58

RedToothBrush · 31/07/2026 13:57

Likewise.

Funny how your mind reads something that's not there.

They did a thing at Charing Cross Station years ago, when they started the sentences and ended the with the correct letters but jumbled up the middle, I can't remember exactly what it was trying to campaign for, but my brain easily sorted it as i strode by in an early morning commuter haze.

RedToothBrush · 31/07/2026 13:57

Datun · 31/07/2026 13:47

Funnily enough, I always read it as Mrs Soho. Despite it not saying that at all!

Likewise.

Funny how your mind reads something that's not there.

DialSquare · 31/07/2026 13:56

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:53

Yes and I found his contribution that he decides when his sex matters disappointing. Is there a reason you're so bothered on his behalf? Is this the worst possible thing that could happen to a man that he's addressed and called out on a man and having a blind spot? C'mon now...

I’m not bothered in his behalf, I’m bothered by someone policing others posts. Either we can all contribute how we wish, or we can’t.

murasaki · 31/07/2026 13:56

Datun · 31/07/2026 13:54

Oh God don't, it might be like Beetlejuice.

I thought that only applied to everyone's favourite lawyer.

RedToothBrush · 31/07/2026 13:56

WrongKindOfFeminist · 30/07/2026 19:13

100%

Phallo phobic. Fucksake.

That is a rapey as fuck term and I wish I hadn't heard it. Any man who uses a word like that about women is a boundary pushing, solid gold creep.

Still, I suppose its further useful evidence. For anyone who hadn't grasped the issues yet.

Hmm that's weaponised DARVOed lesbophobia too.

GreyskySexRealistsky · 31/07/2026 13:55

Datun · 31/07/2026 13:54

Oh God don't, it might be like Beetlejuice.

Only when there's an election hoving into view.

Oh, wait..... 😬

Datun · 31/07/2026 13:54

GreyskySexRealistsky · 31/07/2026 13:33

AdamRyan, where is she now? 🤔

Oh God don't, it might be like Beetlejuice.

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:53

DialSquare · 31/07/2026 13:49

And so will SSSIS.

Yes and I found his contribution that he decides when his sex matters disappointing. Is there a reason you're so bothered on his behalf? Is this the worst possible thing that could happen to a man that he's addressed and called out on a man and having a blind spot? C'mon now...

murasaki · 31/07/2026 13:50

Datun · 31/07/2026 13:47

Funnily enough, I always read it as Mrs Soho. Despite it not saying that at all!

So did i to start with, but 'maybe it's because I'm a Londoner, that I love London Town' 🎵

DialSquare · 31/07/2026 13:49

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:33

I'll make any contribution I wish to, thanks.

And so will SSSIS.

Datun · 31/07/2026 13:47

mrshoho · 31/07/2026 13:29

I'm a Mrs ho ho as opposed Mr Sho ho . The discussion made me consider how my user name could be read either way. 😬

Funnily enough, I always read it as Mrs Soho. Despite it not saying that at all!

murasaki · 31/07/2026 13:46

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:38

I'm not dissing their work at all. I'm curious about the intention to do it under a neutral name, when he's aware he's often mistaken for a woman. I've decided to keep calling it out because I haven't seen any men on here give a satisfactory answer of why they do it even when women have mentioned feeling uncomfortable. There was a lovely poster on here who posted she wasn't going to come here anymore because she felt uncomfortable that posters she has been engaging on threads about SA had been male. I just don't think women asking men to declare their sex should be a problem and I find it worrying that when male posters get this feedback they still decide it doesn't matter to them

I think the name was because it was to do with the issue at hand. I don't attribute any more motivation to it than that.

But ok, you have your views, I have mine. Both are valid, obviously.

Datun · 31/07/2026 13:43

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:31

Maybe I'm naive but I'd like to think otherwise, which is why I'm interested in why men make a conscious decision to not be obviously male when they're usually aware this will bring privilege so a choice not to do it to me means perhaps they assume it will disadvantage them. I don't want males excluded from discussions but I'd place less weight on their opinions because I value women's contributions more.

There's a poster here who has a female name, who turned out to be a man. An excellent poster. But it was, nonetheless, a shock to discover their sex.

I must have missed this! We're they using a female name and declaring their sex in posts or pretending to be female?

So I get it. I'm just not sure there's much of a solution that would satisfy everyone.

Agreed, I just personally think if I were a man the username thing would just be an obvious given for me. Likewise if I was on one of the boards or a forum aimed mostly at men say about men's health or something, I would have a username making it obvious I'm a woman in a mans space as a given, because I'm probably there trying to find help for a loved one and don't have my own loved experience.

Even though the name was female, I don't think they were pretending to be female at all. I think I just missed it.

edited to add that also, the nature of the posts gave no clue. Sometimes male posting is perfectly obvious.

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:38

murasaki · 31/07/2026 13:32

I'm not sure you can get much more amplifying women than the work SSSiS has been doing.

I find i can mostly, not always, but mostly tell male posters. And those that aren't pretending to be women sometimes have neutral usernames. Those pretending, tend not to. I also find there's no need to call out those not fomenting ructions.

I'm not dissing their work at all. I'm curious about the intention to do it under a neutral name, when he's aware he's often mistaken for a woman. I've decided to keep calling it out because I haven't seen any men on here give a satisfactory answer of why they do it even when women have mentioned feeling uncomfortable. There was a lovely poster on here who posted she wasn't going to come here anymore because she felt uncomfortable that posters she has been engaging on threads about SA had been male. I just don't think women asking men to declare their sex should be a problem and I find it worrying that when male posters get this feedback they still decide it doesn't matter to them

murasaki · 31/07/2026 13:37

As an aside, I'm sure Gretel is just loving this dissension in the ranks.

murasaki · 31/07/2026 13:35

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:32

I've always read you as Mrs HoHo so I'm quite pleased with that! It's always made me think of Mrs Clause 🤶🏻

Me too! Although sometimes i mentally put the gap in other usernames in the wrong place, not necessarily Mr/Mrs ones, which leads me to think what does it mean and why did they choose that....

A bit like coworker, which I always read as cow orker. Just use colleague!

Arran2024 · 31/07/2026 13:34

Gretel, you made a lot of points. I want to pick up on one of them.

British institutions, businesses, politicians etc were sold the gender ID myth, largely by Stonewall, who helped persuade them that trans rights extended far beyond what was legal in this country.

This happened at the same time that gender studies ideas were informing students, who took these new ideas into the workplace. Meanwhile EDI took off in businesses across country.

This is all Top Down. There is very little demand for it from the population at large. This is partly why there is such push back. People did not ask their politicians and institutions to replace sex with gender ID. There was no debate. No one did any sort of risk analysis. No one was consulted.

It was all imposed from above. Too right we have looked at it and said no.

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:33

BIWI · 31/07/2026 13:32

You miss my point. You said you wanted to hear more from women on this thread, in rebuttal of the bilge being spouted by Gretel.

Well, go on then.

I'll make any contribution I wish to, thanks.

GreyskySexRealistsky · 31/07/2026 13:33

AdamRyan, where is she now? 🤔

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:32

mrshoho · 31/07/2026 13:29

I'm a Mrs ho ho as opposed Mr Sho ho . The discussion made me consider how my user name could be read either way. 😬

I've always read you as Mrs HoHo so I'm quite pleased with that! It's always made me think of Mrs Clause 🤶🏻

murasaki · 31/07/2026 13:32

I'm not sure you can get much more amplifying women than the work SSSiS has been doing.

I find i can mostly, not always, but mostly tell male posters. And those that aren't pretending to be women sometimes have neutral usernames. Those pretending, tend not to. I also find there's no need to call out those not fomenting ructions.

BIWI · 31/07/2026 13:32

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:22

Why does it have to be one or the other? I partake on loads of threads, on this occasion after seeing SSS call someone a dude when we all know they're a dude I wanted to ask him, again, why he operates under none sexed username. Why is this seen as arguing or an attack to ask someone to identify their sex?

You miss my point. You said you wanted to hear more from women on this thread, in rebuttal of the bilge being spouted by Gretel.

Well, go on then.

Irkeddancer · 31/07/2026 13:31

Datun · 31/07/2026 13:24

ETA I don't really get the advertising thing? MN is the one website where you're not going to get any kind of privilege for declaring you're a man. What's wrong with advertising your sex?

I'd like to think a man wouldn't get any kind of privilege, but given the number of women who post here, it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

There's a poster here who has a female name, who turned out to be a man. An excellent poster. But it was, nonetheless, a shock to discover their sex.

So I get it. I'm just not sure there's much of a solution that would satisfy everyone.

Edited

Maybe I'm naive but I'd like to think otherwise, which is why I'm interested in why men make a conscious decision to not be obviously male when they're usually aware this will bring privilege so a choice not to do it to me means perhaps they assume it will disadvantage them. I don't want males excluded from discussions but I'd place less weight on their opinions because I value women's contributions more.

There's a poster here who has a female name, who turned out to be a man. An excellent poster. But it was, nonetheless, a shock to discover their sex.

I must have missed this! We're they using a female name and declaring their sex in posts or pretending to be female?

So I get it. I'm just not sure there's much of a solution that would satisfy everyone.

Agreed, I just personally think if I were a man the username thing would just be an obvious given for me. Likewise if I was on one of the boards or a forum aimed mostly at men say about men's health or something, I would have a username making it obvious I'm a woman in a mans space as a given, because I'm probably there trying to find help for a loved one and don't have my own loved experience.

mrshoho · 31/07/2026 13:29

I'm a Mrs ho ho as opposed Mr Sho ho . The discussion made me consider how my user name could be read either way. 😬

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