UK radical feminists; what to do?

But gay rights didn't materially affect anyone else. Sure, some people objected, but there was no direct impact on the vast majority of people.

Trans rights affect women and women were not consulted. And this is my point - it has all been imposed with absolutely no discussion, no suggestion of compromise, no empathy for women who say no.

In fact, saying no to males playing in women's sports or coming into the health club ladies locker room will now get you branded "right wing" in many circles.

It is simply a men's rights operation.

Same.

That 98/99% was news to me. And then I looked at the prison figures which were so overwhelmingly male.

It's been an education.

Interestingly, I get educated on feminism by Mumsnet, and transactivism just nailed it all home.

As soon as feminism gives you a statistic on male violence, up steps a transactivist to show you exactly how.

Never has a movement so consistently shot itself in the foot.

I an scrolling past Greta and just following the responses now.

Me too. He might as well just have a megaphone and say I love the sound of my own voice. Well I think you're the minority of one, mate.

And more than that, calling men women is a category error and affects me existentially. If a transwoman is a woman, I am not.

Exactly. Attempts to redefine the word woman to include any man effectively erases women as a distinct category in society. I keep seeing claims that trans people’s existence is under threat or being debated, a recent example being Amnesty’s “apology”, but it’s actually women’s existence which is threatened and talked about as if it’s not a noun for 51% of the human population, but an amorphous, metaphysical concept.

eta: in response to @SwirlyGates

Well what a roller coaster this thread has been !!!

Glad we are on even ground at the moment.

I an scrolling past Greta and just following the responses now.

Im also going to blame MN for my laxity with punctuation. Because.

Unconscious & internalised misogyny had been another thing I hadnt ever been as aware of prior to hanging out on here. Its now very hard to miss.

Yep.

Another thing that genderism has exposed - the way misogyny runs through every level and aspect of society.

I had no idea, as a liberal leftie sex positive feminist that 99% of sex crime was committed by men. Or that 80% of violence is committed by men.

Libfemmery does talk about VAWG but is careful to omit the M at the front. So one is aware of the harms, but remains unclear on the people committing them.

It sounds daft now, but libfemmery had successfully shifted focus from 'women' onto 'kindness for everyone'. You just dont look at the issues from a wider viewpoint. Radfems on MN did radicalised me in that sense.

Thats been very sobering.

@JanesLittleGirl you're too kind, and I did enjoy doing my wee bit with The Fifer!

& not reducing women to their reproductive body parts doesn't delegitimise their right to their own beliefs.

The assertion that accurate sex definitions 'reduce women to their reproductive parts' always suggests that women are not full human beings.

A woman is like a doe or a ewe because she has a female reproductive system.

A woman is like a man because she is human.

Women are very different to each other, and don't necessarily have much in common except for their sex, but because of their sex they sometimes need specific rights and services (regardless of their identity or whether they have taken steps to change their appearance to seem more male).

Everything else is just being human

.

I can't NC as I have already posted on this thread but in future I shall become MrPrettyDamnCosmic. When I signed up I just chose a random username. I didn't know that I should have chosen a gendered name but see the logic.

Perhaps MNHQ could add a sentence or two on the sign-up page? Something along the lines that as over 90% of MN contributors are female that while males are welcome that it's only polite for a male to choose a name that unambiguously reflects his gender sex.

I still remember the feeling of disconnect at a women’s event while standing holding hands to keep very angry male protesters from walking amongst women gathered. Listening to the things they were yelling at us and thinking none of it was correct.

I turned to the police officer standing there and commented that none of it was even accurate and it was really concerning how deeply they believe it. The demonising is all part of claiming to be vulnerable and being victims.

@RedToothBrush MN didn't radicalise women.

When I had an argument about GI, I was actually accused of being radicalised by MN! How insulting. I said, "I've been a feminist for 50 years and I can think for myself, thank you very much."

However, I will credit MN for handing me so many facts and examples to argue back with - the other person didn't have a single good argument. It was all, "Transwomen have female brains," "Sports - it doesn't make that much difference," and "Toilets - where are they supposed to go?" I.e. let these poor menz have what they want, it doesn't really affect you.

And more than that, calling men women is a category error and affects me existentially. If a transwoman is a woman, I am not. There is absolutely nothing that can be used to define us both, but exclude all other humans.

The irony is that so many left wing beardy woke blokes just are full on Incels.

MN centres women. This is something that the beardy woke blokes just can't wrap their heads around this, whilst professing just how progressive they are.

It's hilarious.

I just couldn’t understand the claims that it was a biological reality when it solely rests on using philosophical theories to first destabilise established biological science even from the start.

It is like the entire premise of a male person with surgery somehow becomes a female person? Like WTF… really? There is no logical support even when they desperately try to make something work, it just keeps failing when it comes back to material reality of what defines the sex classes.

I'm not going to lie, I've never once said a man is a woman or called one 'she'. Not in real life and not on the internet.

I had the unfortunate experience of men who thought they were women from the very early 90s onwards. Both in real life and in work.

I'd say that the only place the propaganda came from was from the pro-'men who say they are women' side. As far as I know, there has never been TV series or films starring TERFy women and when there is, one day, I'm betting the starring roles will all go to men. There have been oodles of 'trans child' TV series though, weirdly. There has been massive attempts to make it all seem normal to sterilise and mutilate your child and to accept the pink and blue into your life.

This 'mass scare propaganda' I suppose is the likes of Isla Bryson and Barbie Kardashian showing the world what this insanity looks like. And yet they still cannot roll it back in these large publicly funded organisations. The girl who got into a woman's car and was held captive by the man pretending to be a woman at the same time Scotland was trying to get legislation through didn't help.

Well, maybe - imagine what would happen if they realised that so many 'gc' women are the complete opposite of the caricatures. We might be in real trouble.

I guess that's why they use the attacks they do. They think that leftwing, gender nonconforming, etc women will be incensed to be called all the things they call us. I suppose some of the attempts at personal insult just come straight out of the basement stock of women-hating incels.

By now, it doesn't really bother anyone because it's such obvious bollocks.

It was researching what my school should do with a boy who was claiming he was a girl that introduced me to the Mermaids toxic "guidance" for schools saying that he must be given access to female toilets and changing rooms. Oh and it suggested primary children thinking the same should have an assembly and a cake to "celebrate" their sex change.

You don't need to be a psychologist to see how that's grooming and gaslighting children. The assembly would ensure that a young child would never be able to walk back from that announcement.

The start of the erosion of safeguarding children by the trans lobby that continues to this day. And we still have to challenge it.

MN didn't radicalise women.

It did teach me some phenomenally mindblowing things.

Like: feminism is for women, by women.

It is a very inconvenient fact that it is so grass roots for many people who wish to continue to use the ‘far right’ falsity.

I just assumed it was the ‘female name / food ‘ code that he uses.

But sometimes when my phone screen was dim and I struggled to read, it did come across as ‘Christ in an apple’ . I also wonder if he has a thing for round shaped food.

The timeline is so important on this.

We were talking about this years before JKR was ever involved.

I am convinced that she walked amongst us (and maybe still does) for some time before she said a word publicly. I don't think I will shift my opinion on this given all the things said over the years.

The comments that she radicalised so many women are just funny to me as a result. JKR was almost a latecomer (but thank god she did). There were threads for years talking about how various famous people had almost publicly peaked and speculating about whether they would. Then she did.

MN didn't radicalise women. Women simply shared their lives experiences here and found out that they were far from unique and there were clearly patterns, there is almost a TRA script which looks like a learned that's it's almost Bingo. And the back stories are so similar. Unlike the women here who have a huge range of life experience and backgrounds.

My current favourites are the ploppers that go "well if you knew any transpeople you wouldn't say that" so stuck in this mentality that we couldn't possibly have a broad enough life experience to come across someone trans in real life.

What's striking about the women here when they talk about the subject is the breathe of knowledge and how there's focus on completely different concerns and issues. And it's the sheer depth in knowledge. This is all interconnected with other areas of professional knowledge too.

Comments here are not made up nonsense. They are which is grounded in wider world issues which trans activism lacks and suffers from badly. Trans activism relies on exceptionalism and why they don't have to follow the rules that everyone else does in terms of safeguarding and that's it's biggest problem. And as such it can never get away from the question of whether it's by ignorance and stupidity or by design.

This dynamic of failed protocol and procedures due to exceptionalism is the very thing that leads women here by multiple different routes - professional and private.

It is independent women, and women alone, who are responsible for Terf Island.

And that has been the strength of it.

Women as individuals from every part of the political landscape, left, centrist, right. Of every age, of every race, of every class.

We all share womanhood and we all have experienced life as women, and that includes experiencing the behaviour of men.

Very brave women have protested despite personal risks to safety, career, social standing, and family.

From the tiniest gestures, like refusing to comply in a thousand small ways, stickering, tying ribbons, creating our own secret networks, to the big bold gestures like billboards, legal cases headlines.

Women powered.

I was anti men in women's loos before I realised it was anything to do with transgenderism. I just remember thinking fuck no, no piss on my seat thank you.

These man don't realise that it's actually nothing to do with identifying as trans, and everything to do with being male.

It's risible and completely illogical, to imagine that women need to be told not to want men in their spaces 😄. Patriarchy on steroids

Gender ideology while having a fringe starting point required a mass scare propaganda

I'm a biologist, the very first time someone told me that sex was a spectrum and that humans can change sex, I went "Nah, don't be daft, that's complete and utter bollocks". I've been anti-GI and pro-science since long before the MSM (and even JKR) noticed the issue.