NHS update on recording patient sex and gender identity

@akkakk

the trans community make their own choice to take their journey - it is not imposed on them / forced on them / etc. as such they need to pick up the consequences of those decisions - it is totally inappropriate to believe that the NHS should take responsibility for any of it...

Yeah, this bit really annoys me. The majority of trans people transitioned as adults. That's a choice we made - no, in fact, it's several choices, many choices, one after the other, even repeated over years for some of them. There's literally zero obligation for anyone else to hold our hand as we deal with the consequences of those choices. It's nice when people make efforts to accommodate us, but expecting them to do it is taking it way too far. As for medical professionals, the very least we can do is be fully truthful with them!

Agree with both posts above - am all for compassion… but it starts with honesty

no issue with someone even who says I made this choice and now xyz

but to want to hide everything while still expecting good service is a bit much

Vulnerable people can be abusive too.

We really cannot have a subgroup of people where sex is considered sensitive information in any situation. Its the foot in the door abusers will use.

And how is it going to work? Sex is hiden for trans people in certain situations? This would out them surely?

Sex is replaced with gender for trans people and then revealed? when and how?

Or will it be the case that sex will be hidden for everyone? A step towards making it sensitive information and making safeguarding harder?

The definition of trans is a person of one sex identifying as the other. Why does sex need to be seen as sensitive? Why does a man get to hide his sex the moment he decides he is trans?

I think 'choice' is a really key word. My understanding (but happy to be corrected) is that once upon a time there was a subset of men who liked to occasionally dress in women's clothing, but were still fully men. They were known as 'cross dressers'. Then there was a subset of men who felt they would be happier if they lived life portraying themselves as female in day to day life. They were known as 'transsexuals'. Then, over time, that morphed into a belief in a subset of biological men that they truly were women in the wrong body.

That means that they don't see their trans status as a choice. They see it as a correction of a mistake. They view themselves as innately women with a man's body. So to deny them their identity as such it's cruelty.

The difficulty is that medicine is scientific. Even psychiatry doesn't treat the feelings. It treats the chemical balance in the brain in the hope that the feelings get better. Similarly, pain is first and foremost treated by fixing the underlying cause.

I do have empathy but respecting feelings will kill people in this situation.

Reception area gender, acquired gender, gender identity. How many others?

We should be trying to remove men's ability to conceal their sex, not invent new ways for them to do it.

Why would they need to? "Alex Jones" can be called Alex. It doesn't matter what gender they are. Nobody refers to gender or sex when calling a patient. Their sex matters once clinical treatment is needed.

The problem here is that everyone is walking on eggshells around the “privacy” of something that I don’t believe should be considered top secret information. We obviously disagree on this, but I think the “gender” field should be the optional one and that all hospital employees can be trusted with the knowledge of what sex everyone is.

I don’t think that people should be encouraged to believe that they can conceal their sex.

Frequently it’s really obvious anyway, then it just becomes a power trip.

It’s not about “punishing” them. I don’t think there’s much point arguing the toss about it as you seem very set on your idea, but I strongly disagree with you that they should ever be facilitated by authorities to conceal their sex from people. It’s a fundamental piece of information. Not remotely convinced that this is necessary or desirable. Mostly it’s moot anyway.

Completely agree.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one.

100% a good thing. A man taking estrogen or the other way round is still male and does not have a real vagina

That being said I'm curious as to if this will blanket apply to any patient who has a sex mismatch on record. For trans identifying patients I understand the need and they should go forward with it (and i do really hate the 'what if its an intersex person' gotcha), but in more complex sex cases I wonder how its handled

I have a nephew a bit older than my own kids but still very young so these things do happen in this day and age (he is .20 ). He was born in Pakistan with severe hypospadias and he had many complications during his circumcision so when his birth certificate was registered it was delayed and said female . My relative was advised by a religious figure at a time to raise him as female ( a Note his parents were in a vunerable place at the time and far more religious than I am, I was raised here They were not , it wasn't a case of forcing transition on a child with the intent that most these days have). So when he came to the UK his first passports and nhs numbers ect were female . But he did not have a vagina ect .

He has as far as I'm aware changed his nhs number when it was clear that he did want to live as his birth sex . Would the admin system assume this is a standard trans case by default and put down his biological sex as female but ' gender identity ' as male I wonder.. I know hes seen private doctors abroad for complications from birth but i've no clue if he's sought treatment on the nhs specifically . I'm sure they have his specific situation on their files somewhere though.

100%!!

I'm shocked that someone would say he or she (I suspected it was a he who wants to be a she at first but supposedly this person isn't and just wants to be an 'advocate.') is arguing about this in the name of social justice . It really reads as virtue signalling . Surely someone who cares about those with penises (men) who believe they're women and those with vaginas (women) who believe they're men , they can say that people can dress however they want but it doesn't change their sex / gender. Its rarely actual medical professionals advocating for this gender identity nonsense I've noticed.

The situation is that his sex at birth was registered incorrectly. If something similar were to have occurred in the UK, the procedure is a court application and the court will direct a marginal note to be added to the original birth registration noting the error. He would then be able to have all documents changed to male.

Mistakes happen on birth certificates and there is a longstanding way of dealing with them.

I don't believe that anyone would be so distressed at the idea that a receptionist may find out their sex that the refuse to access medical care, yet they would be happy for all other staff to know it.

Especially as there is a very high chance that it is obvious to anyone who sees them which sex they are.

Its isnt about access to medical care, its manufacturing scenarios where they can claim to be the opposite sex.

Once the NHS decides that its 'life saving' to pretend a man is female, other institutions will follow. Then it becomes the norm to conceal a man's sex in every situation that isnt a medical emergency.

We've seen this in other areas- if they can be admitted into women's prisons they can use womens changing rooms and be on women's wards.

100% a good thing. A man taking estrogen or the other way round is still male and does not have a real vagina

Why is it necessary for a receptionist to know whether someone has a "real vagina" or not?