Should access to mental health services depend on you saying pronouns?

"valuable mental health support."

But is it, if they can't see that forcing somebody to choose pronouns when they are in a fragile mental state is a barrier to entry?

Yes. That is what we normally do.

Because the implication of choice implies a judgement of identity by either myself or others.

I don't like being forced to choose between honorifics either, and I don't like being asked about my sex when it is irrelevant. From my own point of view that is just bog standard feminism.

I have explained in other posts why I believe it is also inappropriate to force this choice on people who are in a fragile mental state.

Honestly to ordinary women this rhetoric is sounding as mad as the non violent trans stuff.

"Forcing someone to choose pronouns" is exactly the same as "forcing the supplier of the service to allocate a pronoun which the customer may not want".

I don't believe anyone is being prevented from accessing mental health care by being asked how they want somebody else to refer to them. They're preventing themselves from accessing that help on the basis of a principle (that nobody male should have their wish to be addressed as"she" acceded to) which is not a hill worth dying on.

That's not up to you, though.

Other people are allowed to have feelings and beliefs that are different.

Why have 'pronouns' in there at all? Just scrap it, if it's all so mad.

Either the NHS caters for those who wish to specify pronouns AND it caters for those who do not wish to specify pronouns, or it is discriminating.

You know what, ten years of being gaslit, attacked, doxxed, threatened, abused, and insulted may well have caused PTSD or similar in many women who dared to stand up and suggest that it was not possible to change sex.

Asking for equitable or equal treatment is not 'mad'.

Well I guess if I needed to access the service I wouldn’t know how I would want to be referred to because I don’t have a clue if I am she or he

when it was biology I could understand

now I don’t know

this isn’t totally hypothetical. I have suffered gender dysmorphia, I won’t talk about some of the thoughts that I have had, but it’s not a nice experience. It’s something that never goes away totally. It was strongest in my teens.

by “picking a side” saying TWAW then for people who have found other ways to cope with gender dysmorphia are penalised. Which is a shame because I think my way which doesn’t involve drugs or surgery has a lot going for it. But when people insist TWAW then the “ bad feelings “ resurface strongly.

I would have to avoid the service because I know rationally that I don’t want to be pushed down the medical and surgical route. That scares me - and it scares me what a pull/ attraction there is in surgery to make me feel more comfortable in my own skin

but I am sure it’s wrong

It's not refer to you though, it's talk about you in the third person. If it's a one-to-one service only, can't see how it's relevant. Even if the service involves eg potentially writing to someones gp, then they could still use "this patient" .

If you are giving your name, then a drop down box for titles is not unusual but they can use the sames.mrs.dr etc as evri, BT and everyone else

I'm not trying to stop you feeling however you want.

But let's be honest, this is not about being asked to say what pronouns you want the therapist to refer to you by.

This is about NOT wanting other people to be able to specify that they want to be called "she" when they are male.

Nobody is suggesting that there shouldn't be an option to fill in preferred pronouns.

I don't believe anyone is being prevented from accessing mental health care by being asked how they want somebody else to refer to them.

Are you familiar with the reasons why people access mental health care?

They're preventing themselves from accessing that help on the basis of a principle (that nobody male should have their wish to be addressed as"she" acceded to) which is not a hill worth dying on.

That isn't the problem at all, as has been explained repeatedly.

Then pronoun people can choose the one they are moat comfortable.with. And yes, maybe 'none' should be an option here

I understand that some people find it difficult to understand that men are not at the centre of everything, but no, that is not the reason.

Please explain why a pronoun is compelled?
What's wrong with a "if you'd like us to call you by a particular pronoun, say here. If you don't want to, move on to the next question? (or something more concise 😃)

Why must genderism be imposed on an unconsenting public?

I know the NHS is awash with wasted money hence all this enforced nonsense, but it's time for it to stop.

Bollocks.

I asked for both options to be available. So that everyone is catered for.

"I'm not trying to stop you feeling however you want. Except that I will insist on telling you how you feel"

To put it in terms that some people may find easier to understand:

Some people find the question 'triggering'.
Some people find the question offensive.
Some people find the question confusing.

We don't cater for the people who want the question and disregard all the other people who don't want the question, or we risk indirectly discriminating. We also risk, as two people on here have pointed out, causing people to self exclude from services.

That's like asking someone whether they are Christian, Muslim or Hindu with no option to say No religion or Jewish and no possibility of progressing without replying one of those three options. People who don't believe in gender ideology object to stating their gender and pronouns.

If don't see how it raises questions about quality of support to be asked how you want others to refer to you.

It's not too different to being asked, "How do you want to us to refer to the god you worship? Allah or God?".
I can't imagine for a second that you go through life using people's preferred pronouns. I imagine 1000 times a day you refer to someone using the pronouns you've chosen for them.

Nobody would be bothered about being asked their pronouns if it was to clarify that Dr Alex Smith is "she". This is all, at base, about the concern that there are males requesting to be referred to as she.

I'm out of this discussion if people can't even acknowledge to themselves the fundamental reason that this issue bothers them.

I hate this kind of crap. I live in NZ and we had a similar thing a few years back with our census. There was no way to answer it truthfully (which you’re supposed to do) if you didn’t believe in gender identity. As PPs have said, it’s the same as having a religion question with no option to choose ‘atheist’ or ‘no religion’.

I and many others simply refused to complete the census and it became a shit show. Feels a whole lot worse when it’s preventing access to healthcare though. Hope you get support OP.

Unfortunately the NHS is a big place. Some within it have gone along with / advocate the pronoun thing. Like on emails you get people putting she/her or what have you. It's a powerful narrative. It does also speak to the framework within mental health support.

If you want a different framework unfortunately you're probably better off going private. BACP/BPC/UKCP/BABCP for CBT specific.

You can also google CBT self help. Probably not that far off what a mental health practitioner will offer tbh. Clinical psychologist will work with more unwell and even then it doesn't seem to be as standard. Psychotherapist even more rare. Counselling not really offered, sometimes maybe as iAPT service
Often counselling for depression. Very specific. You might be offered CBT online groups. Unfortunately it's not great atm.

It's partly due to NICE which is another discussion tbh.

Did you look at the list of pronouns? It isn't only he/his, she/her or they/their. Not caring about pronouns should be an option or at least the ability to state biological sex not "identifying as" and skip everything else.

Many GC women would be happy and not feel discriminated by a simple option of biological sex and corresponding sex based pronouns or they/them/their if you identify as other.

Say head of psychology has gone along with the pronoun narrative then there will be pressure within the service that everyone abides by that. Not every service has a head of psychology that way inclined. It may have even come from above head of psychology - managers pen pushers. NHS England - not sure they still exist. Although there are some heads of psychology that would say no way lol. Then when an app is made, if those in charge are like yes, pronouns are the way forward,then the app will be as you have experienced. Very annoying I agree.