Should access to mental health services depend on you saying pronouns?

It's not well designed for anyone.

There is a 'prefer not to say' option on the gender question

But one can only be addressed as

Mr
Mrs
Miss
Ms
Dr
Rev
Prof
Mx

and the only available pronouns are

She/Her/Hers
He/Him/His
They/Them/Their
Ae/Aer/Aer
Ey/Em/Eir
Fae/Faer/Faer
Per/Per/Pers
Ve/Ver/Vers
Xe/Xem/Xyr
Ze/Hir/Hir

The correct question for a therapist is how would you like me to address you?
And "Would you like me to note a preferred pronoun?" (Although it's difficult to understand why a therapist would use any pronoun other than 'you').

However, I suspect the actual reason for the drop down menus is this question:

"Are you ok if Limbic uses your data anonymously to support the development of the product and research, which might be used for scientific publications?|"

So much more straightforward to organise data when the available options are limited.

Look, I don't think it should be a mandatory field but to deny yourself therapy on the basis of it is really extreme.

Why is there such an inability to grasp that women have feelings and emotions?

We all understand - very, very well - that some people have special requirements about pronouns. The entirety of fucking western civilisation has been rejigged apparently to cater to these desires.

Women have spent years being abused, threatened, and vilified for failing to believe in genderism, and are still being told that their feelings, preferences, thoughts, and desires are not only immaterial, but extreme, unacceptable, 'hatred', 'mad'.

Women who don't accede to or agree with 'genderism' have had their 'gender critical' views tested and found worthy of respect in a democratic society.

Yet we are still being told that these beliefs are not okay to have. We're still told that we have to accept genderism, every time we get this bloody nonsense. And worse, we're not even supposed to care or mind or complain or speak up.

If a person wants their pronouns a certain way, everyone accedes.

If a person doesn't want to give pronouns, why do they then get attacked and vilified and told to shut up and get over it?

I really wish everyone would get over telling women what to do, think, and feel.

Also pertinent - why ask for a person's sex/gender at all? Is it really necessary?

There's a very big stretch between "asked if you want to be called him, her or they" and " "the therapist expects all clients to declare which set of gender stereotypes they most align to as a pre-requisite for accessing therapy". Which is actually saying "the therapist is expected to assign what they believe is the"normal" pronoun for my sex is I refuse to choose one".

Yeah, no.

Asking people what pronoun they "prefer" is exactly the same thing as asking them which gender stereotypes they prefer. As soon as pronouns aren't simply aligned to sex, you unavoidably make them about gender.

You can't deny that, because it's literally the point of doing it. 😂

Whereas using sex aligned pronouns just means using pronouns aligned to sex. There's no additional meaning. In this usage the pronouns don't make a statement or an assumption about anyone's personality, they aren't a judgement, they just align to sex. So they can't be invalidating or offensive, unless the person being addressed has themselves added their own set of meanings on top of sex as well.

Do you understand this? Pronouns are only problematic in Genderist thought, because only Genderists ascribe weird levels of personality to them in the first place.

But when it is Genderist thought driving the conversation, as it is in this case, then pronouns become incredibly insulting to most people exactly because we know the Genderist sexist meaning is the one we are being expected to assign to ourselves.

It's very easy to see this simply by asking "what pronoun does an agender person of female body choose to communicate that she accepts the sex of her body but doesn't feel the same gender identity as a trans woman?" and realising "Oh, there isn't one" to understand how only one belief system is being respected here. It's like a Muslim client having to say if they are Catholic or Protestant.

There's a very big stretch between "asked if you want to be called him, her or they" and " "the therapist expects all clients to declare which set of gender stereotypes they most align to as a pre-requisite for accessing therapy". Which is actually saying "the therapist is expected to assign what they believe is the"normal" pronoun for my sex is I refuse to choose one".

Look, I don't think it should be a mandatory field but to deny yourself therapy on the basis of it is really extreme.

...

@TransparentlyAnnoyed

"Jesus, please get the help you need. Urgently"

Thanks, this sentence really shows you up for what you are.

I have actually started identifying as a straight white man for forms which impose choices on me where I can't opt out and which are a breach of GDPR. So the data they're trying to get illegally is at least a pile of shit. I also make up birth date.

However when it comes to healthcare, data should be accurate.

It's not though, when discharged from hospital there were several made up conditions I've never had which somehow made their way onto my notes, when I queried with GP they said wearily 'yes, we've learned not to rely on what's recorded at all'. Which sounds a bit as if they're trying to treat patients with one hand tied behind their back and presumably is a major issue for anyone who's lost cognitive capacity as in the case of conditions such as dementia.

It's outrageous this is getting in the way of access to care. Time to complain I think.

There is a significant amount of ground between "expects the therapist to believe everything I do" and "the therapist expects all clients to declare which set of gender stereotypes they most align to as a pre-requisite for accessing therapy".

You do realise that, right?

Only in your post you appear to be treating them as the same thing, which is misleading and minimising sexism that many women (and men) find insulting and distressing.

Maybe watch out for that next time, eh?

I see no reason why there can’t be a box for optional preferred pronouns.

Anyone who feels strongly about it can then ensure that their pronouns are known and their needs met. Others can choose to fill it on or not as may be.

I empathise with OP, I felt quite miserable when looking online for a therapist a while ago and seeing that most of them had pronouns in their bios - while this may simply indicate that they are able to help people with gender identity issues and treat them with respect (as of course should be the norm) it could signal they are a gender identity true believer and that really wouldn’t work for me.

The problem is that the trans rights activists have worked so hard to normalise this bs that nobody knows whether they’re coming or going any more

There is absolutely no need for any gender questions to be compulsory in any survey or questionnaire. Include it by all means (although I’m far from convinced it’s helpful to anyone) but it’s discriminatory and wrong to make it compulsory.

Nobody can access counselling if they expect the person who helps them to be in agreement with everything they believe. The therapist is, or should be, trained to keep their own views to themselves.

The Talking Therapies counsellor who I was with as a client 3 weeks ago did momentarily allow her own feelings to show when I referred to Princess Diana as a professional martyr, but they do try hard to be professional.

They also, though, are people who by the very nature of their profession will be predisposed to be accepting of whatever makes their clients most comfortable. That will mean it would be very rare for anyone in the profession to think it reasonable to refuse to call a male who requested it "she".

The majority of people who seek a counsellor who does not feel that way will simply have to do without their help. Not because the therapist can't help them, but because they don't like the way they help someone else.

I assume you also don't see any problem with services that automatically apply pronouns that align with biological sex? You'd tell trans people not to worry about that? They should just accept the pronouns they find degrading, dehumanisng and offensive and move on?

Because if you do, if for you it's one rule for trans people and but another for everyone who doesn't want to be defined by gender, you'd be a great big hypocrite, wouldn't you?

(You don't need to reply to this. You can deny it if you want, but we all know Genderism only works at all exactly because it is one rule for trans people and another for everyone who doesn't want to be defined by gender. So we already know anyone who advocates for TRActivist-style Genderism is a sexist hypocrite.)

The sneering and insults are not coming from OP.

Yep. Its quite stark.

It reveals a lot about a poster who would come on to a board they profess to hate, seek out a thread about mental health, write a snarky post aimed at the OP who is looking for MH support, not read the thread properly, regurgitate a couple of untrue tired insults and then use a sickeningly passive-aggressive sign-off.

Yep, it reveals a lot.

I had this for a gyne appointment. The wording implied that questions about pronouns, gender identity were optional but the system wouldn’t allow me progress without answering them (and no prefer not say option) so I was forced to describe myself using words for a belief system I don’t believe it. The female (inc. transwomen) is just bloody ridiculous.

In any other circumstance I’d just close the questionnaire and decide the event or whatever wasn’t for me. However, it was for a long awaited NHS appointment (for a very sex specific issue) so didn’t really have a choice.

it was a month ago and I’m still fuming.

How come those who request pronouns are entitled to respect and understanding and those who wish to not request pronouns are not?

Why isnt OP entitled to respect?

Where is the bigotry and hatred?

Your accusations are cruel and unnecessary.

It doesn't seem helpful to force a drop down menu of identities on anyone, regardless of how they identify, and particularly if they have poor mental health.

The suggestion is simply to provide an n/a option for those who don't wish to make this choice.

Short version. Many people on the thread feel unable to access care when the care provider offers no option but to accept gender ideology as part of the assessment. Hth.