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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tempest v Rural Payments Agency Tribunal Thread 8

629 replies

myladydisdainisyetliving · 10/07/2026 10:44

Previous thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5551959-tempest-v-rural-payments-agency-tribunal-thread-7

TT substack: https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/tempest-vs-defra-and-rural-payments

Tempest (a TW) is claiming discrimination, harassment and/or victimisation on grounds of gender reassignment. Central to the claim is the existence of the Sex Equality and Equity Network in the Civil Service (SEEN). SEEN has been granted right to intervene. Parts of the original claim against the co-chair of SEEN (Elspeth Duemmer-Wrigley) and another party (Andreas Mueller) were struck out or narrowed. Another claimant, PQ, is no longer part of the case.

Please note that Elspeth still has a garden in need of seeds and water to support the ability of SEEN to be an intervenor in this case. The claim originated because she said "only women menstruate" and a search with her name and those terms at the usual gardening website should point you to her plot.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
Tallisker · 10/07/2026 12:05

And the X-gov Race Forum invited X-gov SEEN to present to their network. ED didn’t attend, but her spies reported back to her.

mateysmum · 10/07/2026 12:04

Normally I am glued to these tribunals, just waiting for the next jaw drop moment or eye roll. This one, I'm scrolling on by half the TT comments because it's all so repetitive and boring. This witness, CA, is far too sensible and rational. How many times does the poor woman have to give esssentially the same answer to the same question. I hope she ha a large bottle of wine chilling in her fridge. She's going to need it.

GailBlancheViola · 10/07/2026 12:04

Boiledbeetle · 10/07/2026 12:02

OK, I now have a new favourite for what hell is like if hell should in fact turn out to exist.

Yes, agree and it has got to be the last circle of Hell, nothing could be worse.

FaithHopeCarnage · 10/07/2026 12:04

I’m reminded of the definition of ‘Natural Justice’ in The Mouseboks Family Dictionary: a phrase almost perfectly describing the contents of an unforseeably emptied diving pool. That is to say, something which is not almost nothing, but also painful.

CriticalCondition · 10/07/2026 12:03

My only consolation during this torture is that maybe it's giving NC even more ammunition.

myladydisdainisyetliving · 10/07/2026 12:03

Tallisker · 10/07/2026 12:01

What HH can’t get through her thick skull is that the number of posts removed from the trans positive side is that so many posts were inflammatory, insulting, catastrophising, mean and untrue. And the moderation team weee under resourced because of the deluge of hideous inappropriate posts from trans positive people (anti women’s rights people) they were completely overwhelmed by the volume and the vitriol expressed.

I am so hoping that NC puts that in a question to CA, she answers yes, and NC says no further questions.

OP posts:
LexLutherPops · 10/07/2026 12:03

I think HH Is just purposely wasting time.

Going round and round in circles like this is completely pointless.
I'm wondering at the judge's patience bearing in mind his apparent gruff short temper towards NC, over far less, in the first half of the week.

Shedmistress · 10/07/2026 12:02

DrBlackbird · 10/07/2026 12:00

Is she talking about Caroline Criado Perez’s book?

Yes.

I know.

Absolutely fucking the point of the fucking book is about how the fucking world is designed around men.

GailBlancheViola · 10/07/2026 12:02

BettyBooper · 10/07/2026 12:00

CA if posted in terms that were offensive or discrim yes, if points made in prof and respectful way then no action taken
J - this point has been made more than one.

<YES, JUDGE, IT HAS!!!!!>

Hallelujah, finally Judge, finally.

Boiledbeetle · 10/07/2026 12:02

OK, I now have a new favourite for what hell is like if hell should in fact turn out to exist.

BettyBooper · 10/07/2026 12:02

CA we ask manager to have informal conv with employee to have respectful discussion, not come down like a tonne of bricks.
HH would you agree (talks of dates sorry missed) that mod inadequately resourced.
CA -we could always use help, it's always the way
HH - company yammer remained til August 23 - your WS you talk about move to Viva and set to private by default
HH an issue that SEEN had remained public until Oct 23
CA - yes along with other networks we didn't realise initially

myladydisdainisyetliving · 10/07/2026 12:01

Haven't we had these questions before to CA?

I'm reminded of this song - the needle returns to the start of the song and we all carry on as before.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxbIU0X-lCI

OP posts:
Tallisker · 10/07/2026 12:01

What HH can’t get through her thick skull is that the number of posts removed from the trans positive side is that so many posts were inflammatory, insulting, catastrophising, mean and untrue. And the moderation team weee under resourced because of the deluge of hideous inappropriate posts from trans positive people (anti women’s rights people) they were completely overwhelmed by the volume and the vitriol expressed.

DrBlackbird · 10/07/2026 12:00

Shedmistress · 10/07/2026 11:57

Invisible Women, Miss Dunn explains for exclusion of TW, NB women women of colour

Jesus h christ alive on a fucking bike

Is she talking about Caroline Criado Perez’s book?

BettyBooper · 10/07/2026 12:00

CA if posted in terms that were offensive or discrim yes, if points made in prof and respectful way then no action taken
J - this point has been made more than one.

<YES, JUDGE, IT HAS!!!!!>

janeszebra · 10/07/2026 12:00

Col in Derry Girls is more interesting that this.

GailBlancheViola · 10/07/2026 11:59

Message to HH : JUST GIVE IT UP, GIVE UP NOW THIS IS RIDICULOUS AND SO ARE YOU.

BettyBooper · 10/07/2026 11:59

CA yes any complaints were reviewed.
HH when complaints raised they were not accepted generally
CA - no action if [didn't break rules] mic in and out sorry
HH - dropped because posts removed or told inappropriate
CA - mod panel asked the line manager to speak to person if post inappropriate
HH - borderline emails, this was a template that could be sent to line managers in relation to borderline email We can see in final para that the staff member, it explains in yammer what language isn't acceptable - transphobic/transphobes yes? So every single person who posted about offensive nature of SEEN were warned off?

Boiledbeetle · 10/07/2026 11:58

.

Pop Tv Please GIF by Schitt's Creek
Thehorticulturalhussie · 10/07/2026 11:58

Shedmistress · 10/07/2026 11:46

Does anyone else feel.like running out into a field and screaming WHAT THE FUCK WERE TOU ALLNFUCJING DOING ALL FUCKING DAY LONG WHEN YOU SHOULD BE FUCMING DOING YOUR FUCKING JOB YOU BUNCH OF FUCKING WANKERS

Or just me?

I think that I may have said something similar!

Shedmistress · 10/07/2026 11:57

Invisible Women, Miss Dunn explains for exclusion of TW, NB women women of colour

Jesus h christ alive on a fucking bike

BettyBooper · 10/07/2026 11:56

HH - para 32 Miss Ayers (sp) WS. You say following Jan 23 complaints decreased managable levels.
CA - when the mod process handed over to IAOs
HH if you are right that mod had dropped to manage levels, two reason for that, firstly, the complaints about discrim posts from trans colleagues had not be acted upon had they

anyolddinosaur · 10/07/2026 11:56

I view spreadsheets on a laptop. I use a wireless mouse as it's simpler. Will someone please fund at least 4 for the court before the next hearing (3 for the panel, one for the witness).

Boiledbeetle · 10/07/2026 11:56

J - was there a q?

Probably not judge. Who knows though as no one is actually listening to her anymore.

DrBlackbird · 10/07/2026 11:56

CA - this is one of the misunderstanding

Could this not sum up… everything*?

*including wilful, strategic and deliberate misunderstanding.