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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How to respond he/she?

339 replies

Manchesteruser · 06/06/2026 00:00

Out with friends. One friend's son has a TIM friend. Obviously male but fake boobs and wearing a dress, about 25. Everyone refers to him 'as she'. I asked one, 'why do you refer to him as 'her/she' rather than 'he' and was told that that was what he prefers.

How would you have responded?

OP posts:
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5
SinuousTendrils · 09/06/2026 07:59

LizandDerekGoals · 06/06/2026 18:03

Of course it is up to op how she refers to someone else. What is odd is someone wants other people to refer to them when they aren't even there. Massively controlling.

I'm sure OP won't be offended when other members of the group start calling her bigoted horror then.

OldCrone · 09/06/2026 07:58

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/06/2026 07:22

I suggest you notice the difference between real people and online propaganda.

Detransition is uncommon, and most of those who detrans didn't have any medical treatment at all. Many detrans due to violent transphobia, not regret.

Detrans people deserve love, support and to be heard. Their experiences are personal, not weapons to be used against trans people.

Quite a few legal cases happening in the US for something so uncommon.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5469068-detransitioner-legal-cases-going-to-trial-in-usa-january-2026

Odd that something so uncommon needs this sort of support service being set up by the NHS.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5518492-detransition-pathway-uk-kudos-to-michael-kerr

And this in the US for children affected.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5530455-us-to-open-worlds-first-childrens-detransition-clinic-texas-hospital-to-offer-free-services-reversing-the-effects-of-gender-affirming-treatments

These 70 detransitioners also seem to be real people.
https://genspect.org/seventy-detransitioners-come-to-washington/

OldCrone · 09/06/2026 07:43

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/06/2026 07:22

I suggest you notice the difference between real people and online propaganda.

Detransition is uncommon, and most of those who detrans didn't have any medical treatment at all. Many detrans due to violent transphobia, not regret.

Detrans people deserve love, support and to be heard. Their experiences are personal, not weapons to be used against trans people.

Are you suggesting that Reddit is populated exclusively by bots?

I agree that it's difficult to know how much of what is written on those spaces is real, but I suppose the same could be said of Mumsnet. For example, how do I know you're a real person and not a bot?

OldCrone · 09/06/2026 07:35

Baileyonice · 09/06/2026 01:53

Lot's of how this impacts you but not them.

Misgendering functions as a targeted method of disrespect used to invalidate someone's identity. It's a kind of invalidation and erasure that makes them feel unseen or dismissed. Being misgendered can actively worsen anxiety, depression and gender dysphoria & can make people feel unsafe, stigmatised, and socially isolated which negatively impacts their ability to engage in workplaces and daily life.

Can you really not see how coercively controlling how someone else speaks is a form of abuse?

You would have us all walking on eggshells, worrying about our language in case it 'invalidates' someone's someone's self-declared 'identity' which bears no resemblance to reality. Should we also validate the identity of the unwell man who insists he's Napoleon?

Not being able to control other people's speech, according to you, makes these people with pseudo identities feel 'unseen or dismissed'. A man with a pseudo identity of 'woman' should be pleased if he's 'unseen or dismissed' as people are just treating him like a woman.

Being forced into a situation where our speech is compelled to deny reality can make people anxious and negatively impact their ability to engage in workplaces and daily life.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 09/06/2026 07:22

Lovelyview · 08/06/2026 15:55

I suggest you go and read detrans Reddit to see the pain that this ridiculous ideology is causing people. Poster after poster realising they were lied to and mourning the very real damage that has been done to their bodies.

I suggest you notice the difference between real people and online propaganda.

Detransition is uncommon, and most of those who detrans didn't have any medical treatment at all. Many detrans due to violent transphobia, not regret.

Detrans people deserve love, support and to be heard. Their experiences are personal, not weapons to be used against trans people.

Helleofabore · 09/06/2026 06:22

TheKeatingFive · 09/06/2026 05:37

Absolute bullshit.

yep

TheKeatingFive · 09/06/2026 05:37

Baileyonice · 09/06/2026 05:34

Pronouns are gendered not sexed.

Absolute bullshit.

Baileyonice · 09/06/2026 05:34

Pronouns are gendered not sexed.

TheKeatingFive · 09/06/2026 05:05

Baileyonice · 09/06/2026 01:53

Lot's of how this impacts you but not them.

Misgendering functions as a targeted method of disrespect used to invalidate someone's identity. It's a kind of invalidation and erasure that makes them feel unseen or dismissed. Being misgendered can actively worsen anxiety, depression and gender dysphoria & can make people feel unsafe, stigmatised, and socially isolated which negatively impacts their ability to engage in workplaces and daily life.

If people cannot cope with being recognised as the sex they are they need to see a therapist

Baileyonice · 09/06/2026 01:53

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/06/2026 20:03

I do not understand how correctly sexing someone (perhaps someone you have known all his or her life) can be framed as "misgendering" and therefore automatically abusive. If I refer to a gay friend or relative of mine as "gay" it may or may not be abusive, depending on how I say it and the context. Even calling him "queer" may not be abusive, despite it having been used abusively countless times when I was a schoolboy.

If I call my son "he", do you think I'm going against the Forstater appeal judgment? I have loved and stood up for my son for the whole of his life, and it is in no way abusive if I refer to him accurately as the son he is. You would have me call my son "she" or pretend that he is my daughter. Bollocks (literally) to that. I cannot deny my son's existence. I don't base third person pronouns on how someone presents themselves or sees themselves; I base them on the knowledge and perception I have.

We all relate to everyone else based on our own perception of them. If you have just read what I have written and decided that makes me a bigot, you will relate to me based on that perception, not on the perception I have of myself, however much I would like you to see me as the lovely kind old gentleman I know myself to be. The gender identity worldview that lectures me on how I should refer to my son is as authoritarian as any religious cult I have come across (and I have come across many, from Moonies to rigid Christian sects).

Lot's of how this impacts you but not them.

Misgendering functions as a targeted method of disrespect used to invalidate someone's identity. It's a kind of invalidation and erasure that makes them feel unseen or dismissed. Being misgendered can actively worsen anxiety, depression and gender dysphoria & can make people feel unsafe, stigmatised, and socially isolated which negatively impacts their ability to engage in workplaces and daily life.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/06/2026 20:11

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 07/06/2026 04:30

Mate, I lived through the 80s. Right wingers complaining that gay people had "stolen that word" was the least of it.

Your objections to trans people using the pronouns which describe them aren't anything other than recycled bigotry.

Trans people can use whatever pronouns they like. What they can't reasonably do is dictate my pronoun usage. All my life I and literally everyone around me used third person pronouns based on sex. It is not OK to pretend that continuing that usage is hatred and abuse; that framing is damaging to the trans people who believe it. Pronouns are the property of the person using them to convey meaning as part of their language. The idea that there is such a thing as my pronouns which everyone must use about me is part of a widespread manipulation of other people's language, along with other examples such as "trans woman" which would make much more sense as "trans man" (a man who is trans) and vice versa.

Even "bigot" is the insult of choice of bigoted people who can see no other worldview than their own.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/06/2026 20:03

Baileyonice · 06/06/2026 23:31

But you can't misgender trans people being the point. And why is that if biology reigns supreme over pronoun usage as you claim? Because it clearly doesn't.

I do not understand how correctly sexing someone (perhaps someone you have known all his or her life) can be framed as "misgendering" and therefore automatically abusive. If I refer to a gay friend or relative of mine as "gay" it may or may not be abusive, depending on how I say it and the context. Even calling him "queer" may not be abusive, despite it having been used abusively countless times when I was a schoolboy.

If I call my son "he", do you think I'm going against the Forstater appeal judgment? I have loved and stood up for my son for the whole of his life, and it is in no way abusive if I refer to him accurately as the son he is. You would have me call my son "she" or pretend that he is my daughter. Bollocks (literally) to that. I cannot deny my son's existence. I don't base third person pronouns on how someone presents themselves or sees themselves; I base them on the knowledge and perception I have.

We all relate to everyone else based on our own perception of them. If you have just read what I have written and decided that makes me a bigot, you will relate to me based on that perception, not on the perception I have of myself, however much I would like you to see me as the lovely kind old gentleman I know myself to be. The gender identity worldview that lectures me on how I should refer to my son is as authoritarian as any religious cult I have come across (and I have come across many, from Moonies to rigid Christian sects).

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/06/2026 19:39

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 21:34

Being gay isn't an observable fact. Homophobes have always claimed it was a lifestyle choice.

I'm afraid being trans is real, and normal.

Claiming it's a belief is just ignorance. You aren't trans, and clearly don't have any close trans friends - perhaps educate yourself. Listen to other people.

No one would invent being trans. Living as trans is violent, difficult and intensely stressful - but essential, because of how it heals dysphoria. Try reading what older trans people have written on this subject, it may open your eyes.

Try reading what older trans people have written on this subject, it may open your eyes.

It did. I discovered that attempts to explain gender identity as being a more enlightened replacement for sex in society are incoherent and damaging.

RapidOnsetGenderCritic · 08/06/2026 19:29

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 17:39

Depends. If I knew of you as someone who called themselves All-Knowing, I'd find that quietly amusing.

But in company, because I'm not a rude, bigoted person wishing to be abusive to anyone, I'd call you Al.

p.s. Well done for missing my point. The people abusing my mum and the lesbian couple thought they were against nature, and pretending to be something they weren't.

To them, it was obvious that my mum was a terrible person who'd chosen an unrighteous path - and that gay people couldn't be in relationships.

Comparing being trans with arrogance, showing off and selfishness is bigotry, I'm afraid. Try educating yourself, meeting some trans people and stop pronouncing on stuff you don't understand.

Do you say to trans people that they should educate themselves and stop assuming that people who disagree with them politely are hateful and bigoted?

Lovelyview · 08/06/2026 15:55

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 21:52

I live with someone who's trans. In fact, gave birth to them, raised them and have watched them develop.

I've seen how coming out not only healed something within him, but also revealed the extent to which he'd hidden his true self from us. He's himself, a trans man. I don't see him as a woman.

(Please don't accuse me of 'transing' him - it's ridiculous. I had no part in him being trans, and although I support him 100% would far prefer he wasn't because of the violence he's endured.)

Please try reading some trans voices, if you wish to understand what being trans is.

I suggest you go and read detrans Reddit to see the pain that this ridiculous ideology is causing people. Poster after poster realising they were lied to and mourning the very real damage that has been done to their bodies.

Miyagi99 · 08/06/2026 09:19

I’d just call them by their name.

RedToothBrush · 08/06/2026 09:13

RedToothBrush · 08/06/2026 08:49

You are homophobic and tone deaf. Well done.

When even the SC are saying that failure to acknowledge sex whilst screaming transphobia is a form of homophobia in certain situations, you aren't on a winner.

RedToothBrush · 08/06/2026 08:53

If you think referencing sex is offensive, I'm sorry but you need to be prosecuting all biologists, all feminists, all doctors, anyone who has ever had a biological child through sex...

...or it could be you spouting utter guff to uphold disturbing and potentially dangerous delusions in someone who has avoidant type behaviour which is just about the worst thing you can do because eventually it WILL catch up with them and there will be a point where sex matters and they won't be able to avoid it and they will have a meltdown over it.

RedToothBrush · 08/06/2026 08:49

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 07/06/2026 20:29

Nope. I'm a working-class cis woman living on carer's allowance who objects to people being transphobic, hi there. We are legion.

You are homophobic and tone deaf. Well done.

RedToothBrush · 08/06/2026 08:47

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 06/06/2026 21:52

I live with someone who's trans. In fact, gave birth to them, raised them and have watched them develop.

I've seen how coming out not only healed something within him, but also revealed the extent to which he'd hidden his true self from us. He's himself, a trans man. I don't see him as a woman.

(Please don't accuse me of 'transing' him - it's ridiculous. I had no part in him being trans, and although I support him 100% would far prefer he wasn't because of the violence he's endured.)

Please try reading some trans voices, if you wish to understand what being trans is.

Cos you are the only person here ever to have lived with someone trans.

The comparison with being gay is deeply offensive for many reasons which have been documented here many times. Not least to gay people. The Tavistock had so many gay kids it became an internal sick running joke about 'transing away the gay'.

TheKeatingFive · 08/06/2026 08:36

ConstanzeMozart · 08/06/2026 07:42

Privilege comes in many forms.
Calling correct-sex wording abusive is pretty offensive.

It's also an utterly absurd position. Stating basic facts that were absolutely uncontroversial until 5 minutes ago 'abusive'? It's straight out of 1984.

ConstanzeMozart · 08/06/2026 07:42

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 07/06/2026 20:29

Nope. I'm a working-class cis woman living on carer's allowance who objects to people being transphobic, hi there. We are legion.

Privilege comes in many forms.
Calling correct-sex wording abusive is pretty offensive.

ScrollingLeaves · 07/06/2026 23:13

Zoonosis · 07/06/2026 18:37

Most women wouldn't find it "rude" but most women aren't terribly fragile creatures who can't possibly spend the evening being basically civil to a trans person.

Let civility swop sides in this case.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 07/06/2026 20:51

Manchesteruser · 06/06/2026 00:00

Out with friends. One friend's son has a TIM friend. Obviously male but fake boobs and wearing a dress, about 25. Everyone refers to him 'as she'. I asked one, 'why do you refer to him as 'her/she' rather than 'he' and was told that that was what he prefers.

How would you have responded?

I would mostly avoid pronouns and if necessary use "they/them" for the friend.

Your friends probably feel a bit daft using "she" for someone they know perfectly well is a bloke but don't want to offend their son (or indeed the friend). You're at one remove so you can go one step away from the nonsense.

Inmyuggs · 07/06/2026 20:30

By the persons name since you obviously have a issue with it anyway?!
I hate being referred to as she or her ....I have a name.

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