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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Continuation of Polypostwonder thread

534 replies

Imdunfer · 02/06/2026 07:55

Follow on from this thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5532352-the-liminality-of-sex-perception-sex-based-spaces-and-bodily-autonomy?page=39

For argument sake, I understand Blaire White to be a woman. This is independent of the knowledge she chose to only undergo cosmetic facial surgeries and breast augmentation, while retaining everything else.
I think I remember reading that she politically aligns 'right' and is politically vocal about being a male, living as a trans woman. I'm not 100% sure, though. It's not a way that I could understand living, but it is financially lucrative in her case.

There is a person who declares themselves to be male.

That person chooses to live presenting as a female.

In spite of their self declaration as a male, complete with male genitals, you understand that they are a woman.

And you ascribe their understanding of themselves being male, at least partly, to financial motives.

This is either monumentally arrogant or monumentally stupid thinking, or possibly both. Or perhaps you just like playing with a largely female forum and seeing how many feathers you can ruffle.

One thing is for sure, and that is that I don't think anything you write on this subject from now on is going to be of any value to read.

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Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 21:10

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:57

I am in complete support of keeping men out of women's spaces. I've already written about how I feel about trans people. The remainder is disagreement.

No you aren't. When you use the term men you exclude female identitying trans people.

Don't be disingenuous.

I agree with the person above, you are rendering this discussion meaningless.

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HousePlantEmergency · 08/06/2026 21:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Helleofabore · 08/06/2026 20:59

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:57

I am in complete support of keeping men out of women's spaces. I've already written about how I feel about trans people. The remainder is disagreement.

There really is something dishonest in gaslighting female people that if a male person declares that they are female or woman, that female people who want to use language that is unique to female people (that excludes every single male person in regardless of how they identify) can just use the word female and woman as per normal and be understood with accuracy.

This is a prime example of that gaslighting. It all relies on a male
person rejecting any word being used for them other than female and woman, meaning that communication is rendered meaningless.

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:57

Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 20:55

What is clear is that you are willfully choosing not to understand why women want or need or are entitled to keep genetic males out of female only spaces.

I am in complete support of keeping men out of women's spaces. I've already written about how I feel about trans people. The remainder is disagreement.

Shedmistress · 08/06/2026 20:56

There is NO SUCH THING as 'Cishood'.

Its all made up fucknuncklery.

Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 20:55

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:48

I'm still not understanding why you feel this is necessary. How does you declaring cishood affect my life or the operation of services designated for women?

ETA: or the lives of other women?

Edited

What is clear is that you are willfully choosing not to understand why women want or need or are entitled to keep genetic males out of female only spaces.

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polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:48

Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 20:46

But they do. If a male like you cannot be trusted not to rock up and say "yes I'm a woman" to get into a female space, then the real women can't establish their
right to be there without declaring in some way that they were born female.

Your blindness to this basic fact is astonishing.

ETA and I have to say it also begins to feel abusive.

Edited

I'm still not understanding why you feel this is necessary. How does you declaring cishood affect my life or the operation of services designated for women?

ETA: or the lives of other women?

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:46

Helleofabore · 08/06/2026 20:45

And yet, there are very public court cases where people believed that ‘woman’ was specified only to find that they were sharing a changing room with a male person.

And none of the plaintiffs needed to identify themselves as anyone other than a woman.

Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 20:46

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:42

Anyone applying or asking for entry in those situations does not have to define themselves in any form other than a woman or girl. Needing to specify 'cis woman' has never happened.

ETA: Trans people are the exception. They are <1% of the population and may/can be questioned in the above contexts if their sex is unclear to the provider or whomever.

Edited

But they do. If a male like you cannot be trusted not to rock up and say "yes I'm a woman" to get into a female space, then the real women can't establish their
right to be there without declaring in some way that they were born female.

Your blindness to this basic fact is astonishing.

ETA and I have to say it also begins to feel abusive.

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Helleofabore · 08/06/2026 20:45

And yet, there are very public court cases where people believed that ‘woman’ was specified only to find that they were sharing a changing room with a male person.

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:42

Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 20:40

You can't think of one? I gave you two!

Let me spell it out for you. If male people like you insist on using or attempting to use female spaces, then the following situations would require a woman to say that they were "a CIS woman" or "a woman who was born female" or similar qualifiers.

Anyone applying to compete at national level in a female only sport, anyone applying to join a Women's Institute, anyone asking for entry to a women only swimming session, any girl joining Girl Guides, any woman being admitted to a female only hospital ward, any woman seeking support from a women only rape crisis centre, any lesbian joining a lesbian only club, any girl going to a girl's school .....

etc, etc, etc.

Edited

Anyone applying or asking for entry in those situations does not have to define themselves in any form other than a woman or girl. Needing to specify 'cis woman' has never happened.

ETA: Trans people are the exception. They are <1% of the population and may/can be questioned in the above contexts if their sex is unclear to the provider or whomever.

Helleofabore · 08/06/2026 20:42

When someone shows you again and again how much they hate female people, believe them.

Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 20:40

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:26

I can't think of any situation where the first thought in someone's head is "am I speaking with a trans person? How do I determine this is not a trans person or if they are, filter them away? This needs an answer before progressing through the rest of whatever is happening." The presumption is "woman" or "man."

You can't think of one? I gave you two!

Let me spell it out for you. If male people like you insist on using or attempting to use female spaces, then the following situations would require a woman to say that they were "a CIS woman" or "a woman who was born female" or similar qualifiers.

Anyone applying to compete at national level in a female only sport, anyone applying to join a Women's Institute, anyone asking for entry to a women only swimming session, any girl joining Girl Guides, any woman being admitted to a female only hospital ward, any woman seeking support from a women only rape crisis centre, any lesbian joining a lesbian only club, any girl going to a girl's school .....

etc, etc, etc.

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Helleofabore · 08/06/2026 20:40

My friend in another country requested a female health professional to do an intimate examination and felt forced to accept a male with a transgender identity due to the current ambiguous legal situation there. She specifically asked for a female person. It was very traumatic.

If a person cannot understand female people’s needs to have words that uniquely describe female people, I can only imagine that they simply have no experience as a female person, and don’t give a fuck about female people.

ArabellaScott · 08/06/2026 20:38

The 'reward' being women's privacy, safety, and dignity.

Helleofabore · 08/06/2026 20:35

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:05

I don't believe most people feel a need to receive that level of specificity.

I'm sorry that you feel there is some reward society is prepared to offer you if you can separate yourself from trans people.

“I'm sorry that you feel there is some reward society is prepared to offer you if you can separate yourself from trans people.”

Misogyny writ large.

The examples in the post you replied to were legitimate and reasonable.

I think it is hateful towards female people to treat the need for female single sex health professionals and sports as being “some reward society is prepared to offer you if you can separate yourself from trans people.”

ArabellaScott · 08/06/2026 20:30

MEN. It's about MEN.

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:29

Why do you believe you need to distinguish yourself from a trans person in these circumstances when the service provider probably isn't even considering this question?

ArabellaScott · 08/06/2026 20:29

It's not about flipping trans.

It's about MEN.

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:26

Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 20:18

I have told you of two specific examples of large areas of activity where that would be required. Most women would be affected at some point in their lives.

You simply ignore any point anyone makes that you find difficult.

WTAF is your last sentence supposed to even mean 😁😆🤣. Question is rhetorical, please don't answer.

I can't think of any situation where the first thought in someone's head is "am I speaking with a trans person? How do I determine this is not a trans person or if they are, filter them away? This needs an answer before progressing through the rest of whatever is happening." The presumption is "woman" or "man."

Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 20:18

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:05

I don't believe most people feel a need to receive that level of specificity.

I'm sorry that you feel there is some reward society is prepared to offer you if you can separate yourself from trans people.

I have told you of two specific examples of large areas of activity where that would be required. Most women would be affected at some point in their lives.

You simply ignore any point anyone makes that you find difficult.

WTAF is your last sentence supposed to even mean 😁😆🤣. Question is rhetorical, please don't answer.

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Taztoy · 08/06/2026 20:07

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:05

I don't believe most people feel a need to receive that level of specificity.

I'm sorry that you feel there is some reward society is prepared to offer you if you can separate yourself from trans people.

It is and never will be a REWARD for me to be able to access single sex support services following my rape.

that is so offensive.

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 20:05

Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 19:59

How else do you propose, if you insist on calling yourself a woman, that I describe myself when I need to be clear that I was born female? For example if I was to do a sport at elite level or access a female only service.

If you insist on being called a woman then in that situation I have to add qualifying terms to that.

That isn't acceptable to me.

I don't believe most people feel a need to receive that level of specificity.

I'm sorry that you feel there is some reward society is prepared to offer you if you can separate yourself from trans people.

Taztoy · 08/06/2026 20:04

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 19:36

I don't believe women should have to add labels to themselves.

You’re not a woman therefore you need to add a qualifier. Women who were born female do not.

Imdunfer · 08/06/2026 19:59

polypostwonder · 08/06/2026 19:36

I don't believe women should have to add labels to themselves.

How else do you propose, if you insist on calling yourself a woman, that I describe myself when I need to be clear that I was born female? For example if I was to do a sport at elite level or access a female only service.

If you insist on being called a woman then in that situation I have to add qualifying terms to that.

That isn't acceptable to me.

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