Page 8 | Be Kind 2.0 and the "Persuasive TRA"

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 2026-06-01T11:00:41+00:00

This is a spinoff from another thread so as not to derail the original. I thought it would be helpful to have a separate thread to discuss, and document, a phenomenon I have been seeing more regularly recently: the Persuasive TRA. It occurred to me, after a few posters noted that the recent U-turns by a couple of politicians, and the wheedling TRA responses to the EHRC guidance, were akin to an abuser changing tactics and also asking us to "help" them in the new single-sex regime, that the whole thing is starting to pan out exactly as an abusive relationship often does. When is the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship? Normally, when she is leaving. Well, women are leaving the abusive relationship with non-reality that men forced upon us some 15 years ago, and I would argue that now might be our most dangerous/difficult moment. This is what I posted on the other thread: ^I'm starting to see a bit more of what I am calling (in my own head) "Persuasive TRA." Now that they have lost everything that they bullied women for, some activists seem to be changing tack. Women must now fix the situation that TRAs have found themselves in. It seems to pivot on a sort of Be Kind 2.0.^ ^I think women who have been in the game long enough will see through it, but we should be watchful. Stonewall is pivoting, activists are pivoting, and they will be preying on women's socialized kindness: watch for the destination and ^*^be on your guard.^* I have read several posters on different threads appealing to everyone (women) to help calm trans-identified people's (men's) fears about what this new reality will look like, what it will mean for them (the men) now that they can't just do whatever they want anymore. What about the men's toilets? Are they safe? Where will they go? (Who will fix this problem?) Well, apparently it is a problem that women can fix, if they just take a moment to think about it. Trans-identified men will be unsafe in the men's, so women need to join the fight to give these men something of their own. Notice the pivot? The pleading? If you just... If you weren't so.... It can be different if you just... Sound familiar? To any woman who is in, or has escaped from, an abusive relationship, this will be all too familiar. This is Be Kind 2.0. It's very similar to the original, except that instead of being forced to enjoy our abuse, we are being *^asked to fix it.^* And the "Persuasive TRAs" seem to be mobilizing, from what I have seen. It won't start in the middle (with the women); it will start at the top (infiltrating government, think tanks, charities, etc.) and the bottom (schools). But they will use women to get this moving. Why not? It worked so well last time. And I believe that organizations like Stonewall will be leading the charge: the campaign can be something like Safe Spaces for Trans+ : All of Us Together. If anyone else has seen this in action, it might be useful to keep a record of it here. I imagine this thread will eventually be taken over by activists, but, until then, I would be interested in your thoughts.

Original poster

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 28/06/2026 09:43

Helleofabore · 28/06/2026 09:20

This really is the crux of it.

If a male person is going to claim to be oppressed in the way that female people are, they are going to twist the needs that female people discuss as the basis of the safeguarding decisions and policies that focus on providing equitable solutions to female people's unique needs to be their needs too. It makes sense when you understand that there are no boundaries to their claims at all. Anything that a male person thinks will be convincing to other people to gain support for allowing their subjective reality that they are female to be treated as if it is materially real, will be leveraged.

After all, what women's rights campaigners and feminists have been saying has worked to enact some changes to provide some safeguarding protection. So, those arguments are successfully convincing others why not acquire them? The arguments have been made by female people, after all. If someone wants to be be seen as being female when they are male, then in their mind this is just another added 'support' to achieve that (ie, by making that same argument, they are then associated with the others making the same argument.)

Show quote history

After all, what women's rights campaigners and feminists have been saying has worked to enact some changes to provide some safeguarding protection. So, those arguments are successfully convincing others why not acquire them? The arguments have been made by female people, after all.

Exactly. I think it was @Igmum who first coined the phrase "wearing our arguments." Activists will appropriate anything they think will work at this stage. They are clearly floundering. I see it all the time on these threads now. At least in the UK, I think their regime is toppling.

OP posts:

Helleofabore · 28/06/2026 09:20

Igmum · 01/06/2026 12:58

Spot on Bridget. There’s still some throwing their toys out of the pram but others have moved on to big pleading eyes and pllllleeeeaaassse.

Marie I think the distorted mirroring has been going on forever (DARVO, rights aren’t top trumps), it’s as though as well as skin walking women they want to wear our arguments as well. It’s a genuinely weird feeling to see an argument for women’s rights on here then, 6-18 m later, hear it adopted by TRAs.

This really is the crux of it.

If a male person is going to claim to be oppressed in the way that female people are, they are going to twist the needs that female people discuss as the basis of the safeguarding decisions and policies that focus on providing equitable solutions to female people's unique needs to be their needs too. It makes sense when you understand that there are no boundaries to their claims at all. Anything that a male person thinks will be convincing to other people to gain support for allowing their subjective reality that they are female to be treated as if it is materially real, will be leveraged.

After all, what women's rights campaigners and feminists have been saying has worked to enact some changes to provide some safeguarding protection. So, those arguments are successfully convincing others why not acquire them? The arguments have been made by female people, after all. If someone wants to be be seen as being female when they are male, then in their mind this is just another added 'support' to achieve that (ie, by making that same argument, they are then associated with the others making the same argument.)

Helleofabore · 28/06/2026 09:03

MarieDeGournay · 01/06/2026 12:47

Thanks OP [shorter than BPIACJ😄]
I think there's always been a range of approaches from TRAs, and they don't necessarily abandon one when they move onto another, they keep them all on the go.

At present, some of them saying that TW are 100% women, in at least one infamous case, biological women, while others are being all 'reasonable' and saying 'But of course, nobody can really change sex, so I know I'm still male, but I am a woman because that's how I present'.

Some are demanding third spaces [fourth spaces, the third spaces are accessible toilets which are for disabled people who actually need them, they are not a consolation prize for TWs who are not allowed use the women's], while some won't use them because they are 'outing' (like we didn't know!), or because they are a sell-out, it's the ladies' or nothing.

About a year ago I started noticing a trend which I called 'mirroring': ideas and
phrases that were commonly used by GC feminists started to be taken up by TRAs:
they started calling us 'flat earthers'
they said we were deluded and had been lied to
they said that the Suffragettes had fought for women not to be defined by their sex
they said that Helen Joyce + Genspect had set out a deliberate GC strategy - mirroring the Denton's document.
Behind the ruling: how ‘Sex Matters’ is shaping UK policy on trans rights
they used words like 'safety' 'dignity' and 'comfort' to justify TiMs using women' toilets.

I don't think it lasted very long, but it was a definite 'thing' for a while.

The way my mind works is to cut through the waffle to the basics, and ask 'why?' and 'what is the evidence?' None of these TRA approaches - the threats, the mirroring, the name-calling the persuasion, the attempted bonhomie - can hide the factual void at the centre of all transgender claims and arguments: people cannot change sex.
So why argue for all these elaborate structures on the basis that they can?

DARVO. And once you see it, the pattern is very easy to see.

RedToothBrush · 28/06/2026 05:14

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 27/06/2026 17:13

It's the wording I find so intriguing! Are they admitting that trans-identified people have an image problem? So, they're blaming LGB people. Not specifically women for once. Interesting.

Why not blame the activists for their poor image? Because they still need them.

Show quote history

They hate gay people and women?

I mean the whole premise of being trans is homophobic in many respects. For men it's about imposing feminine gender stereotypes and re-inacting them. For women it's about escaping them.

You can't get away from this because it's so ingrained in the ideology unfortunately.

Original poster

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 27/06/2026 17:13

EmpressaurusKitty · 27/06/2026 16:54

And they wonder why we need the LGB Alliance?

Show quote history

It's the wording I find so intriguing! Are they admitting that trans-identified people have an image problem? So, they're blaming LGB people. Not specifically women for once. Interesting.

Why not blame the activists for their poor image? Because they still need them.

OP posts:

Original poster

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 27/06/2026 17:11

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 27/06/2026 16:47

I feel genuinely sorry for that one; I think he has started to realise just what an ass he is being, but can't work out how to stop without looking as if he has "lost". On of his mates needs to take him to a pub and get him drunk, and then let him cry on his shoulder and go "waaah!"

It does seem like he's digging himself a hole, but a lot of it reads like "Oh, I don't know anything about UK law, so I'd better go look something up." Not realizing, or ever understanding, that posters know a lot more about it than you can find easily online! I've really only caught the last few pages, I've been "stuck" on another thread.

OP posts:

EmpressaurusKitty · 27/06/2026 16:54

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 27/06/2026 16:43

And a doozy from the "arguing with a Terf" thread:

[my bold]
An LGBT organisation's purpose is to ensure the needs of everyone under the queer umbrella, and working on the image of trans people (which becomes the image of the entire community by association)

LGB people need to make the T look better! It's apparently right up our alley, and the raison d'être for all LGBT organizations.

And they wonder why we need the LGB Alliance?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 27/06/2026 16:47

I feel genuinely sorry for that one; I think he has started to realise just what an ass he is being, but can't work out how to stop without looking as if he has "lost". On of his mates needs to take him to a pub and get him drunk, and then let him cry on his shoulder and go "waaah!"

Original poster

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 27/06/2026 16:43

And a doozy from the "arguing with a Terf" thread:

[my bold]
An LGBT organisation's purpose is to ensure the needs of everyone under the queer umbrella, and working on the image of trans people (which becomes the image of the entire community by association)

LGB people need to make the T look better! It's apparently right up our alley, and the raison d'être for all LGBT organizations.

OP posts:

Original poster

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 27/06/2026 11:11

Some choice examples of tactics from recent threads that I have noticed, to add to the ever-growing list:

Recognising one is trans and therefore different but valid [a pivot to persuade women that trans-identified men are not saying they are actually women? is this trying to row back years of failed pressurization, in view of recent court losses?]

which doesn't sit logically alongside the next one:

male with a female soul [I think it used to be "male with woman-gendered soul" - so this may be an old tactic dressed up in new terms (man is not just "woman" but actually "female")]

Typical (common) behaviours to a sex isn't the same as stereotypical (expectations) behaviours [this has been argued before, but the "common vs. stereotypical" dichotomy seems to be making more of an appearance lately]

And another phenomenon I've seen popping up very recently:

the Persuasive TERF - these appear to be TRAs who mostly propound GC views when it's just natter, thereby establishing their "credentials," but work to undermine good news stories by regularly pointing out minor flaws in outcomes, sowing doubt in posters' optimism.

There seem to be one or two regulars who do this. I have experienced it personally on a few of my posts.

It may simply be pessimism or irritation that one poster made a good news point that another poster wished they had been able to make first. Or it could simply be a different point of view. But some of it seems carefully devised to deflect from, or to remove, optimism in the achievements that women have made recently.

OP posts:

Original poster

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 23/06/2026 14:51

A funny one today, just because it's hotter in London that the Fifth Circle of Hell:

(with thanks to @TheywontletmehavethenameIwant

The cause seems to have gone from No Debate to If you can't baffle them with 'trans' science bore them with complete bullshit.

OP posts:

Original poster

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 20/06/2026 19:45

EmpressDomesticatednottamed · 20/06/2026 19:40

Oh you beat me to it, I was just pondering if that one was just a proper wet lettuce or a new tactic of hand wringing Cassandra-like and wailing "they've won so why bother", waves white flag etc.

Show quote history

It really, really started out so badly, but they seem to have recruited someone else to do the responses now. The first poster was just diabolically bad.

OP posts:

Original poster

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 20/06/2026 19:44

murasaki · 20/06/2026 19:40

I haven't enjoyed one so much since yesterday's misunderstanding of Stalingrad. Is the communal braincell on annual leave?

What braincell? Did I miss something?
It truly is The Thread to End All Threads!

OP posts:

EmpressDomesticatednottamed · 20/06/2026 19:40

BridgetPhillipsonIsACowardlyJobsworth · 20/06/2026 19:28

If you can bear it, this thread is The Persuasive TRA on steroids (be warned, it is a very strange thread, mostly reads as if AI generated, and sometimes reads as though there is more than one person responding):

Transgender women will not be prosecuted in the use of women’s single sex facilities | Mumsnet

I suspect the thread will just start to go downhill from here on in, with responses becoming increasingly incoherent, as they already are.

Some choice examples of "persuasion " from the thread below. Enjoy!

Transgender people have spent years transitioning and why stop now?

The reality is people can be angry and upset and take action with violence and take lives. [ok, so that's more like a threat]

I doubt staff or management will police single sex spaces.

Transgender women on medication will be threatened with violence going in the men’s spaces.

Transgender women will not care about being prosecuted. It is persecution in the public eye. [actually, the use of the term "persecution" is quite clever here, haven't heard that before. Harks back to the days of the days of the Cathars or the Spanish Inquisition]

It takes courage to prosecute and it is unsafe. Cancel culture is alive. [sounds vaguely like another threat]

It is easier to not notice a transgender woman in the women’s space and go on with your life. [this is my second fav, just pretend you don't notice!]

We need to be honest. I have a daughter to support and I need my job to pay the bills and I can’t afford to do that if I start policing the women’s spaces.

It will be the disabled toilets business will use as third and fourth spaces. The toilet will be clogged or dirty so it will be bad for disabled people. :(

A risk assessment was carried out and the men’s is not 💯 safe for transgender women of risk of harm.

I’ve met trans women and they respect women’s rights.

Transgender women have won.

[...And my all time fav... drumroll please...] - We need a truce of sorts.

And there it is, ladies and germs:

THEY WANT A TRUCE.

Oh you beat me to it, I was just pondering if that one was just a proper wet lettuce or a new tactic of hand wringing Cassandra-like and wailing "they've won so why bother", waves white flag etc.

murasaki · 20/06/2026 19:40

I haven't enjoyed one so much since yesterday's misunderstanding of Stalingrad. Is the communal braincell on annual leave?

murasaki · 20/06/2026 19:37

It is truly the thread of all the talents. I keep meaning to start dinner but it's addictive....