What is in the water this week?! Glinner now making a mockery of the cause

Who can really know how the opposite sex feels? I don't. I know how I am treated though. Trans people are affected by stereotypes as much as anyone else. I'm sure some trans people are motivated by gender stereotypes. 'Trans' is a very inclusive definition. I'd be willing to bet that there are far more Christian conservative 'tradwives' reifying harmful stereotypes, than trans women.

No, I didn’t blame it on trans people. We are where we are for many reasons, but feminists have always wanted to dismantle gender stereotypes. Without gender stereotypes, how does one describe feeling like a member of the opposite sex?

My interpretation of that thread is the member's son is acting out based on his mother's (and possibly fathers, but he is rarely referenced in the thread) sex realist beliefs. A six year-old trans child living life as trans is not a lie, it is not a belief, it is the child's life.

Yeah I struggle with non standard pronouning etc due to my autism. I have a female friend who has non binary identity and I just can't manage the they themming. I think there's quite ironically a general lack of understanding about how taxing it is for us ND folk to mask all day and then mask mask per person to track all the gendentities.

We were thinking of the same thread then.

So a potentially ASD/ADHD kid declining to lie is what you class as horrific bullying.

Enlightening, thank you.

I believe this is the one. (There was no physical violence here, from what I can remember. But this is where it startts.)

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5352900-how-to-talk-about-trans-girl-in-my-sons-class

I don't remember that one. Perhaps you could find and link it?

I remember children being pressured by their teachers, and even disciplined, over declining to lie/play along that a classmate had changed sex. But presumably the instance you're referring to is completely different.

children can be groomed to viscerally feel revulsion to the point of having their belief manifest as violence.

It's not sensible middle aged women who are grooming children and manifesting violence.

Toxic male behaviour comes in many forms; bullying girls for not being girly enough, bullying other boys for not being manly enough, and shoving phones in the faces of women. As well as the more obvious Tate stuff, and less obvious coercive stuff. Male aggression is male aggression, regardless of the sex of the victim, or who is identifying as trans.

And if you want to see some visceral revulsion, look up Grace Campbell and her TIM mate talking about the FWS women.

This should read child being pulled, not children. I missed that last edit.

In the general sense, I agree. However, children can be groomed to viscerally feel revulsion to the point of having their belief manifest as violence.

Edited to add, I remember reading (here, from a mumsnet member) an example of their children being pulled out of class because of repeated instances of bullying a trans student at school

So you agree that "sensible middle aged women who know that mammals cannot change sex and that single sex spaces are important are not responsible for toxic male behaviour"?

I edited my post because it read closer to that, than the thoughts I intended to share. But, no.

I e. Burn the witch. Got it.

Violence was directed toward me in school, in the 80s. Unlike TPA's son, I didn't complete school due to the harassment and bullying. Sex realist perspectives on violence manipulate context and erase the actual social and cultural influences that impact real lives.

Middle aged women were not controlling boys' hands. But they do have a lot of influence on boys' minds.

Blaming an entire culture's gendered clothing and styling choices on fewer than one percent of the population is a belief. There is no group spending more time and energy focused on laying bricks between the sexes than sex realists.

Yes, the seventies and eighties allowed some gender fluidity, but from personal experience, I can tell you that tolerance went only so far and there was no social acceptance. Trans people were severely policed and punished, even by people who adored David Bowie and Culture Club.

He's a him. He'll always be my son to me. It's not even a choice anymore, I would struggle to see him as a girl now. If he detransitioned it would be quite the adjustment but I'd get there. His life, not mine.

Cheers for your good wishes though.

I kind of lost my point in the previous post - it was to say I'm no stranger to women who didn't buy what typical sex stereotypes were selling, and I've always respected their choice to look and act how they wanted. I mean obviously they're female and no escaping that, but it doesn't come up that often.

It's not in my gift to invite them into male spaces, it's just not. And honestly mostly do not recommend! But apart from that, I'm a one man safe space. I'm not going to pretend things that aren't true, it's just not in me, but apart from that, we cool.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed I wish your female child all the best and hope that she has found her tribe. A lot of us find teen years horrendous but find our people in our twenties, hopefully this is the way.

One of my good uni friends identified as a lad, and to be fair she was pretty good at it. Put it this way her way of making friends with me was beating me at pool, holding me to a draw at arm rasslin (sneaky knee against the bottom of the table and trick elbow position made her very hard to beat) and then smashed me in a pint race.

I fully accepted her as one of the lads, such as we were, but we all knew there was a limit. Like why would she use the rather disgusting male loo when she had a girl ticket to the less icky female ones (90s student union, wouldn't have been spotless I expect).

Same same with my favourite cousin Sam. Retired fire fighter, could probably throw me ten yards with one arm, lives in a plaid shirt and a sharp fade hairdo.

TransParentlyAnnoyed, your daughter's maternity rights are confirmed, even though she says she isn't a woman, thanks to FWS and the Supreme Court. The sexualised bullying she endured at school and college is part of the "epidemic of violence against women and girls", because she's female.

Sophia Brooks is an entitled male whose hobby is deliberately intimidating women at women's events. It's typical aggressive male behaviour, the same as was directed by boys towards your daughter at school.

Sensible middle aged women who know that mammals cannot change sex and that single sex spaces are important are not responsible for toxic male behaviour.

It honestly amazes me to see women on this board appear to believe that sexual violence can be provoked by appearance or belonging to a minority. Or that a trans boy deserves to be attacked for challenging gender norms.

Just proves my point. Those abusive boys are learning from transphobic adults.

Nothing about that is feminism. Trans boys are human beings who just want to attend school without being subjected to violence. Ditto trans girls.

This is happening, as I said, to cis girls as well. But trans children are in the front line because their transitions (often amounting to no more than a haircut, name change & use of the school disabled toilet) are sexualised as well as demonised by adults.

It's very real, and inexcusable.

The only tangible result of anti-trans activism is increased violence against trans people, especially children.

Although tbf it has also led to a greater infantilisation of cis women (with the far right queuing up to 'save' us - no thanks), denigration of our many sporting achievements and, of course, the erosion of our reproduction rights.

Damage the right to personal autonomy and politicians denying us the control of our own bodies. We should all support trans rights.

I find it disturbing that we have gone back to such entrenched ideas of gender expression that people will now wonder about a girl who has short hair and wears trousers. One of the aims of feminism is to break down gender stereotypes, but after the freer times of the seventies and eighties we now find ourselves in a world that’s very conforming, where it’s highly unusual to see a teenage girl with short hair, for example. The shops are filled with blue or pink clothes and toys more than ever. The trans rights movement reinforces this, because how can you signal that you’re different if there’s no binary to move between, or reject?

We if she does claim to be a boy whilst wearing skirts and makeup, and demands to access spaces relevant to the other sex, you can appreciate there would be confusion.

If trans boys had not been denied all gender care, including - quite crucially - the intensive counselling they used to receive before getting hormones then they wouldn't be self-medicating.

Just one of the many ways anti-trans activism has harmed kids.

My son isn't yet taking hormones, but he's an adult now and can do what he wants. I'd rather he'd had the counselling and perhaps treatment as a child, rather than suffering as he has with the wrong puberty. Trans adults have a very low.regret rate from.transition, though those who do detrans need far more support than they get.

I'm sure it suits you to believe that trans men are unhappy and often detrans. But it's just not so. Trans men often have babies long after starting medication. And they aren't a monolith: many choose not to have surgery, many are gnc, some are straight, others are gay, bi, ace or pan.

Ultimately, their body their choice. That right should never be eroded.

I have had zero contact with Mermaids. I'm afraid parents of trans children don't fit into neat boxes either.

I'm speaking from personal experience of raising a trans boy I nearly lost due to the excessive violence, prejudice and harassment (most of it sexual) he suffered as a child. He has been trans from a very early age, and considers it a small part of who he is.

Testosterone is not 'catastrophic' in female.bodies btw. We naturally produce it. Ignoring the testimony of the many thousands of happy trans men is a choice.

And don't forget the allegations of suicide which are not only unevidenced but contradicted by the evidence.

Just all reads like TRA playbook with nephew/niece/child added in depending on day.

"The people on this forum hating on Sophia might want to ask why trans kids are protesting. It's because of the vicious, uncontrolled transphobia they suffer in schools and on the street, all of it a direct result of adults pushing anti-trans hatred."

Again, this is the same highly emotionally manipulative type of statement that you keep posting.

The people on this forum are not 'hating on' Brooks. We are however pointing out that he is a male person who has been harassing people and acting with threat and intimidation while also directly being fraudulent in how he interacted with women's groups.

That you, personally, consider any discussion about Brooks' own behaviour to be 'hating on' says a great deal about the extreme polarisation of your views.

You are also on a UK website discussing a UK case involving a UK citizen. Please show examples of the "vicious, uncontrolled transphobia they suffer in schools and on the street" that children experience in the UK.

Shall we then also talk about these children who are protesting and how they are protesting in ways that are also threatening and intimidating, just like Brooks' own behaviour? Can you acknowledge that these are not protests where they simply gather and discuss their needs and raise awareness on the streets? Or are you so deeply entrenched that you cannot acknowledge that?

Maybe you don't even know about the situation here except for what you see from very limited media, yet you feel very confident in commenting on the situation here in the UK.

It is not 'anti-trans hatred' to discuss the needs for single sex provisions. It can be considered misogynistic though to shame women from having these legitimate discussions.