Tribunal discussion thread supporting FayeRC in case against NHS England part 2

Even the remedies hearing is bad for my blood pressure.

It reminds me of the all the bullying, the obfuscation, the passing of the buck; to say nothing of the waste of tax payers’ money while people and committees faff around looking for ways to circumvent the law.

Brava to the women who have put their heads above the parapet, but they should never have had to. Stonewall and all those who rushed to support this madness should hang their heads in shame.

Microbiologists warn against unisex toilet facilities in hospitals as they contain more pathogens.

And afternoon

afternoon part one and part two

Yes, I’ve just read it 🙄

Submissions tomorrow

It was utterly gobsmacking hearing the witness for NHSE (SK) give details on how many groups, sub-groups, unions, Uncle Tom Cobley and all needed to be consulted to on ‘trans’ policy, yet she clearly objected to being asked to include SEEN in health.

16 months after the SC decision and they have still not made it clear that using spaces reserved for the opposite sex will be a disciplinary matter; the best she could come up with was this:

"NC: Let me put it that if a muslim woman is adjusting her hijab and a man walks in, she can say go away?
SK: Yes
NC: And she should know that management will support her in that?
SK: That management will look into the matter and act fairly."

Do read the TT threads if you haven’t already. No wonder the NHS is in a state. The amount of management time spent on something that should be very simple is mind blowing.

You are a shero Faye.

It’s actually really frightening how employers are trying to minimise GC belief and not providing consistent support.

If misgendering a transperson could be a disciplinary offence then to my mind calling me a cis woman is also mis gendering me and could also be a disciplinary offence. Similarly a TW using the women’s toilets/changing room is them not following policy it should be a disciplinary offence.

Morning thread

NHSE hearing

Wow! Naomi takes the respondent’s KC arguments apart.

Quietly following. And shaking my head.
My thanks to Faye 🌻

She's the biz isn't she? I'm glad that she referred to Bashback and their hammer logo. Simon Cheetham tried so hard to play it all down.

4-6 weeks for judgement. 🤞Faye gets £££ punitive damages as NC says this is the only way NHSE will listen.

What I would like to see is a group action from lots of nurses across the NHS using the fact the guidance has the effect of indirect discrimination. That would really get the Ministers attention.

I can’t believe the arguments NC has had to put forward. These arguments have been put forward for decades because of evidence women are more vulnerable in mixed sex facilities - to the point women abstain from using them if they are mixed sex. That why we have single sex facilities. It’s crazy.

Just quoting to bring to people’s attention- I found yesterday’s proceedings were somewhat difficult to follow but I can really recommend that people read the output from this morning - here’s hoping that journalists follow it up and bring it to a wider audience

Sorry to hear that, get well soon

Sod's law, Jimmy. Get well soon.

Hello all, it's me :) I felt today's session went well but we shall see. Tribunal Tweets 2 volunteer did fab job keeping up with the pace.

Hi Faye, it read like it did. Best of luck for the outcome. We're rooting for you.

I hope you have a good break in the mean time and enjoy the sunshine.

All the best to you and well done Faye. TT do a great job, and NC was great. I hope you can get some quality time in over the weekend and rest up a bit.💜

Oh yes, of course thanks to TT for a sterling job as ever.

SK: Yes - NHSE has 37 sites, and not all of them will have 'gender neutral' facilities on top of a disabled and accessible one. The estate is very mixed.
NC: But fair to say that if you have enough for women to use if don't want mixed, then you have enough for much smaller number of trans staff?
SK: Yes that is logical.
NC: So you don't need an audit surely?

excellent

NC: Making places mixed sex make them more usable for men than women.
👍