Do you exist IRL?

Creepy men are so used to women self-excluding around them (wherever the women possibly can do), they think women don’t exist as real people in they way that they, the creeps, do

I found this over Christmas, I was at a party with some pretty liberal be kind friends of mine, they have enjoyed watching the bbc show what it feels like for a girl, things like that, but this time they started a big conversation about image khelif and the world strongest woman competition. It stayed pretty polite but there was a general consensus that a lot of what is going on is unbelievable.
So I think people all over are seeing the dark side and realising it’s not just dressing up in nightclubs, but it affects real life people (women) very negatively.

To make the most obvious point imaginable, if no one was talking about it in real life, then there wouldn't be any need to employ so many tactics to stop people talking about it, including the threats of violence, sacking women from their jobs, reporting them to the police, chucking them out of council meetings (see recent thread about Bristol), getting their speaking engagements cancelled, throwing them out of political parties, banning them from social media, standing outside meetings shouting abuse and letting off smoke bombs.

That's an awful lot of effort going into silencing people who apparently don't exist.

I have a couple of trans friends , one presents as female

That's interesting - do they believe that being a woman means being female in some way? Because that's a GC view.

My Aunt Bunbury agrees too.

Literally no one irl thinks about trans people at all. No one cares.

Genuinely, I'm glad if they think that.
I'm glad it's not "terf island is so bigoted we'll all literally die if we have to stay among these people silently not believing woman is a feeling".

Because it demonstrates the violence and hate they talk about doesn't exist in GC women, and the majority belief that sex is real and sometimes it matters affects their lives not one bit.

I mean, obviously this person will massively contradict themselves tomorrow, but for today it's good.

Whilst it's true that there are some people who adhere to the delusional GC ideology IRL, I suspect what's actually been referred to here is that there is something about the pseudo-anonymous nature of online fora that results in people being rather more forthright than they would in face-to-face situations.

I personally have never met anybody who is outwardly bigoted gender-critical to others in person since good manners and social acceptability ensure any hatred they might harbour is kept private, as it should be.

You then add bots, which both outrage and feed on the outrage of, certain types of people into the mix and the result is that online discourse is a toxic, ugly caricature of real-world interactions.

I work in a very working class community and I’d say GC views are the norm. Also held are pretty right wing views around a whole bunch of views. I think the ‘quieter’ IRL group are those of us who are fairly liberal/left wing but who also hold GC views.

Pretty sure I exist IRL. Really interesting to hear that Terfery has become mainstream. I’ve bored my friends had conversations about this for years and the majority of people have agreed for years. So pleased it has now become more socially acceptable.

And since I was with you at the time, we can confirm each other’s RL existence. Also that there was overwhelming agreement that women have a right to single sex, not gender, facilities.

Having leafleted in a major town centre, there are so many people who have been following female sports issues, guides, the NHS cases and support feminists campaigning to prioritise female single sex provisions. People still talk about Bryson too.

This is in no way just an MN issue. Far from it unless you curate your communication and interaction to exclude people who may have a negative opinion about the demands to prioritise gender identity over someone’s sex.

Where people aren't terfy in real life it tends to be that they don't believe how far it has gone. "But they wouldn't actually let a boy into the girls' changing room would they? You're just being paranoid. They'd change somewhere different. They wouldn't put a boy in the girls rugby team, that would be insane. My daughter wouldn't stand for that."

Yes. If you haven’t had a conversation with any negativity mentioned, you probably live in a bubble as you admit.

The very fact that the polling indicates the majority of people in the UK want single sex provisions to remain single sex would make it seem that your personal experience is not likely to be the universal experience. It is just as unlikely as your claim that ‘no one will identify the sex of your stunningly beautiful friend’.

I know quite a few people involved with sport and it is definitely being discussed. So to medical treatment for children amongst parents of teens and the negative impacts on teenagers having mixed sex school toilets etc. As well as Guiding and Scouts.

However, we also know through at least two polls in the UK alone that if people believe that they will have a negative reaction, such as abuse or ostracisation, for speaking openly about their opinions they will not speak openly. They will just not discuss it at all in that person’s presence. So it is also likely that this contributes to the false perception that no one but MN is discussing this.

I genuinely only see it on mums net. I have never seen it, or had a conversation about it negativity in real life. I have a couple of trans friends , one presents as female (and is stunningly beautiful, you would never know, uses female toilets etc , never been noticed or commented on in my experience) the other presents as very masculine I was very surprised when they told me they used to be a female , again in my experience I have never witnessed any objections or negative comments. I live in a very liberal area so I may be admittedly be in a bubble but in my real life its never been a problem

TRA yo-yo between believing that terfs are irrelevant and nobody agrees with them, and trans people are the most marginalised and targeted demographic in existence.

I think what he means is “nobody says much about it in real life”. No they don’t mate, because they’re intimidated and don’t want to be called names like bigot/transphobe/ be verbally attacked by TRAs.

When I’ve been brave enough to raise the subject with some friends who I suspected might be on the “TWAW” side of the debate, I found that they thought of themselves as allies, but when questioned further agreed with me that they shouldn’t be allowed in women’s spaces/sports, and kids shouldn’t be medicalised, so would likely be called transphobic if they said that out loud in front of their trans pals at work.

Hello, this is my first time posting on any of these threads but I have been lurking for some time now, and I have learnt an awful lot from the threads. I exist. I have had a few discussions recently with my close family and friends and it seems to be discussed a lot more now. I had a conversation with a neighbour over the weekend and we are on the same page. I also recently had a discussion with my sister who is TWAW but not to an extreme level. We had a chat, she gave a couple of examples of why she thought TW should be in women's spaces and I gave a few examples of why they shouldn't. I did see a very small penny drop. This subject is very much being talked about more in my opinion.

“On the other hand, I've noticed how often women are casually talking about this now. I run a number of community groups.”

I host a few community groups and have noticed this too. It is getting discussed openly now.

Literally no one irl thinks about trans people at all. No one cares.
This is what happens when you a) live in a bubble and b) react aggressively to anyone who gives off even a hint of disagreeing with you.
If I knew him IRL, such as a colleague or family member, I'd be polite but keep my distance. When someone is clearly unhinged, sees anyone who disagrees with them as a bigot and willing to post all their grievances on social media, people disengage and quietly walk away.
I'd be massively surprised if anyone IRL spoke to him about being GC.
On the other hand, I've noticed how often women are casually talking about this now. I run a number of community groups. Five years ago, I'd have been surprised if anyone just casually raised the subject but its happening a lot now. It's something that is clearly a topic for a lot of women.

I exist & all the women I’ve protested with, leafleted with & been to parliament with exist too.

Does he know that you can't see people's thoughts 'irl', whereas you can if they've written them down on X or MN?

This Montgomerie?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5398721-womens-private-spaces?reply=146687604&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

(Posting the link with the image of the start of the twitter interaction of Montgomerie and Prior mocking women’s toilet sounds). When Montgomerie talks about twitter and nonsense, we all know he is projecting right?

We certainly know he is a misogynist.

Does this person even know what ‘gender critical’ means?
twerp.

I LOL'd at "gender critical isn't real".
What a berk.

Proving once again that TRAs have no idea about real women's lives