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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kelly v Leonardo Employment Tribunal Thread 4

684 replies

ickky · 24/10/2025 09:14

The Tribunal has now finished and we await the judgement.

Abbreviations:

C or MK - Claimant, Maria Kelly
NC - Naomi Cunningham, barrister for C
KW - Katy Wedderburn, solicitor for C
R or L - Respondent. Leonardo UK
ST - Susanne Tanner KC, barrister for R
J - Judge
P - Panel member
GC - gender critical
GI - gender identity
AL - Andrew R Letton VP People Shared Services Leonardo - respondent witness

Tribunal Tweets coverage here

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5416903-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-29th-september-10am?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5420656-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-thread-2

Thread 3
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5421183-kelly-v-leonardo-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Kelly vs Leonardo UK Ltd

Tribunal will consider workplace toilet provision

https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/kelly-vs-leonardo-uk-ltd

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
NoBinturongsHereMate · 25/10/2025 00:02

Do they have her speaking notes in full, or just the TT summary? I've found the latter, which is an excellent read, but it would be even better to see the full version without the abbreviations and missed bits.

Bannedontherun · 24/10/2025 22:51

@Largesso go to open justice substack they have published Naomi’s verbal submissions in full.

it is a glory to behold she deals with judicial capture in it.

for me it was like reading Ripley from aliens with her flame thrower laying the enemy to waste.

Largesso · 24/10/2025 22:34

I’m a bit behind with this - did the judge seem captured? I saw a comment somewhere else that she’d given NC à hard time?

Form1ess · 24/10/2025 18:18

Also think Maria Kelly will win, she did everything right and followed the process. I’m still surprised Leonardo didn’t settle as they had no convincing arguments. Horrible to put Maria through all that.

Britinme · 24/10/2025 13:47

i agree - the more of these successful highly public employment tribunals, the better.

Talkinpeace · 24/10/2025 12:51

anyolddinosaur · 24/10/2025 12:26

Dont see how Leonardo can possibly win but the award of damages may be small.

Edited

The damages are already enormous and growing.
Reputationally

anyolddinosaur · 24/10/2025 12:26

Dont see how Leonardo can possibly win but the award of damages may be small.

lcakethereforeIam · 24/10/2025 11:53

I'd like sanity to be restored and for every woman who's been forced to share a changing room with a man to be compensated and receive an apology.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · 24/10/2025 11:45

What do we think the odds of this case are?

Grok tells me "Drawing from similar cases (e.g., ~80% success rate for claimants in gender-critical employment disputes since Forstater, per analyses from groups like Sex Matters), I'd assess Kelly's odds of a full win (liability on at least one claim, plus compensation/policy remedies) at 75–85%. A partial win (e.g., harassment upheld but discrimination dismissed) is possible (~15% chance), with a full loss unlikely (<10%). If successful, awards could range £10,000–£50,000+ in compensation, plus costs.
This is an informed estimate, not a prediction—tribunals weigh evidence holistically. For deeper analysis, see Sex Matters' case briefing. Watch for judgment announcements via Tribunal Tweets."

I am keen for as many slam dunk, public cases as possible to happen so everywhere else (schools for me!) get with the programme.

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