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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why are so many GC women pro-Israel?

514 replies

Krakinou · 21/08/2025 23:09

This is a feminist forum. It’s in the name. I’m a feminist, therefore logically atheist and frankly anti-religion. Certainly against any kind of religious nationalism (Christian, Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, etc.)

But surely feminism is about liberation for all women, not just the ones we agree with? The destruction of patriarchal structures, not of women and children who are conditioned by them?

I constantly see snarky comments in GC articles about Gaza and dehumanizing comments about Palestinians and Muslims generally on this board. And minimizing of the suffering of the tens of thousands of people being murdered in an internationally recognized genocide. I don’t get it. It seems out of sync with the general mumsnet feeling too - I get the impression most people on mumsnet are pretty horrified by Israel’s actions.

Does anyone else get the same impression? If so, what is the connection between being Gender Critical and being anti-Palestine? Is it just that the leftist terfs aren’t so represented here?

I’m in a feminist group in Spain and it doesn’t have the same issue at all.

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Imnobody4 · 11/10/2025 12:10

Mousa Abu Marzouk, a member of the Hamas Political Bureau said in an October 27, 2023 interview that aired on Russia Today TV that the tunnels in Gaza were built to protect Hamas fighters from airstrikes, not civilians. He added that Hamas fights Israel from within the tunnels. Abu Marzouq added that since 75% of the residents in the Gaza Strip are refugees, it is the responsibility of the United Nations to protect them.

Hamas cares nothing for Palestinian civilians.

When Israel is under attack it's civilians run to bomb shelters. Israel protects it's children and civilians. It responded to an unprovoked attack.

LastTrainsEast · 11/10/2025 09:52

Hamas will tell you to say "what about our children?"

But it's Hamas using them as human shields. If they had released the hostages (especially the little kids) on day 2 none of this would have happened.

Consider if a man strapped a child to his chest and walked around London shooting people.

Police would try to avoid hurting the child but at some point they'd have to shoot him.

How many people here believe such a man should be allowed to kill as many as he likes for years if need be to be on the safe side?

Remember that Israel frequently warns civilians when they are going to attack and urges them to leave the area for their own sake.

Hamas will tell you that telling them to move out of the way is also a breach of their rights and they should stay where they are. Lined up between Hamas murderers and the guns.

LastTrainsEast · 11/10/2025 09:45

Common decency.

I should probably try to fit in and support men who rape women, murder them and steal their children, but I am old and was not brought up that way.

I'm a gender critical man for similar reasons.

I'm told I should consider the needs of men who can't be happy without going into women's toilets and into changing rooms to watch little girls undress.

I just can't do it.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 11/10/2025 08:51

Very good I meant to say, typo.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 11/10/2025 08:51

Yes very article. Inadequate men have to vent their rage on others.

MoltenLasagne · 11/10/2025 07:20

Imnobody4 · 10/10/2025 23:32

Excellent article by Janice Turner on Jihad al-Shamie.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/8d9ff90e-ab5b-4afb-8838-bb3af52d710c?shareToken=df86179a5f959f96674c58c35b901672

In many ways Shamie was another textbook male loser: smoking dope, unable to keep a job, estranged from his kids, living with his mother, bulking up his body with weights and still not feeling enough of a man. He was an easy mark for an Islamist doctrine that gave him control over his wives. Then, when even these women evaded him, he directed his aggrieved entitlement, his desire for domination, into a new direction, one celebrated openly of late on Britain’s streets: killing Jews.

That's a fantastic article from Janice Turner. Thank you for the share link.

pluseight · 11/10/2025 07:09

Great article from Janice Turner there.

I don't understand how one can claim to be a feminist yet not support Israel – the two positions are antithetical.

Imnobody4 · 10/10/2025 23:32

Excellent article by Janice Turner on Jihad al-Shamie.

https://www.thetimes.com/article/8d9ff90e-ab5b-4afb-8838-bb3af52d710c?shareToken=df86179a5f959f96674c58c35b901672

In many ways Shamie was another textbook male loser: smoking dope, unable to keep a job, estranged from his kids, living with his mother, bulking up his body with weights and still not feeling enough of a man. He was an easy mark for an Islamist doctrine that gave him control over his wives. Then, when even these women evaded him, he directed his aggrieved entitlement, his desire for domination, into a new direction, one celebrated openly of late on Britain’s streets: killing Jews.

What Jihad al-Shamie’s three wives tell us about terror

Where were the warning signs, we ask about monsters like the Manchester killer. The answer is: in their domestic lives

https://www.thetimes.com/article/8d9ff90e-ab5b-4afb-8838-bb3af52d710c?shareToken=df86179a5f959f96674c58c35b901672

Namelessnelly · 10/10/2025 20:19

Krakinou · 10/10/2025 13:06

The UN disagrees with you, but I’m sure you know better what with all your qualifications and experience as….?

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

Edited

Yeah but the UN appointed a man as ambassador for women so im not placing a lot of faith in their competency on any subject.

Namelessnelly · 10/10/2025 20:16

PrettyDamnCosmic · 10/10/2025 12:32

It’s patently obvious that you are a bloke. Your choice of words for your lies are interesting too as that other FWR irritant Tandoori also claims to have “birthed” two children.

Ooh good spot! Maybe it’s a TRA code lol

YourAmplePlumPoster · 10/10/2025 18:17

Jeremy Bowen appears to be a Hamas sympsthiser. Watching the BBC right now. Unfortunately, I'm thinking the nutters will detail it at the last minute.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 10/10/2025 18:14

It's similar to the Nazis. You start a war and dont expect to be punished. As Commander Harris, known as bomber Harris, said about the Nazis: "They reaped the wind and sowed the whirlwind." Honestly, what Palestinian is going to be glad about Hamas ruling Gaza?

TempestTost · 10/10/2025 18:08

Krakinou · 10/10/2025 13:06

The UN disagrees with you, but I’m sure you know better what with all your qualifications and experience as….?

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

Edited

The UN also thinks men can become women, when it suits them.

It isn't simply the destruction of a group that makes a military action ethnic cleansing. If a war about land or resources or anything else results in a whole group of people being destroyed, that's not genocide, it's just war.It's still awful, but it doesn't meet the definition.

There seems in recent years a lot of push to use certain buzz words because they are perceived to make things morally worse. It's not just an act of violence that kills or maims someone, it's a hate crime, so worse.It's not just an act targeting people you don't like, it's terrorism, because that is worse. It's not just killing people for land, it's genocide, because that is worse.

It's like people don't think regular violence and war are bad enough.

What is true is that Hamas are committing war crimes, according to law, every day, and this is responsible for many of the civilian casualties - preventing these is the purpose of these laws. Were they to stop doing this, it would look a lot less "genocidal"which is perhaps why they carry on with it.

Grammarnut · 10/10/2025 14:20

Squidgoals · 10/10/2025 13:55

You must not be aware of the UN’s bias against Israel. Here’s a quick illustration of the issue. Between 2013 and 2023 the UNGA adopted resolutions on Israel (i.e. condemned Israel) 154 times. In the same time period the rest of the world combined was condemned 71 times. Do we really think that such a tiny country is more than twice as badly behaved as Iran, Russia, North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar, Syria and Afghanistan put together? It’s ridiculous. The UN’s animosity towards Israel is so blatant it’s become a joke.

Thank you, you have said most eloquently what needs saying about UN bias re Israel.

Grammarnut · 10/10/2025 14:13

Krakinou · 10/10/2025 13:06

The UN disagrees with you, but I’m sure you know better what with all your qualifications and experience as….?

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

Edited

The UN does not have clean hands since they have had to sack UNWRA employees who took part in the atrocity of Oct 7th, which means they have employed members of Hamas or their fellow-travellers. When is the UN declaring the disaster in Sudan genocide or the Christian-killing in Nigeria? If they are not genocide, why is that - both events are based on ethnic/religious differences/cleansing.
I have been watching the news from Gaza a lot and the same pictures of the same places destroyed seem appear all the time. No-one looks as if they are starving - which is not the case with news from the Yemen, where it is bloody obvious starvation is ongoing among women and children.
@Squidgoals has pointed out the undeniable bias of the UN against Israel. Funny how such a small country manages to be something like 3x as wicked as the rest of the world.

Squidgoals · 10/10/2025 13:55

Krakinou · 10/10/2025 13:06

The UN disagrees with you, but I’m sure you know better what with all your qualifications and experience as….?

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

Edited

You must not be aware of the UN’s bias against Israel. Here’s a quick illustration of the issue. Between 2013 and 2023 the UNGA adopted resolutions on Israel (i.e. condemned Israel) 154 times. In the same time period the rest of the world combined was condemned 71 times. Do we really think that such a tiny country is more than twice as badly behaved as Iran, Russia, North Korea, China, Saudi Arabia, Myanmar, Syria and Afghanistan put together? It’s ridiculous. The UN’s animosity towards Israel is so blatant it’s become a joke.

FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 10/10/2025 13:09

So in fact yes, this is another time wasting thread trying to harass and slur women who want sex based rights that men find inconvenient. And does nothing whatever for women's legal rights and protections.

Hide button here we come.

Krakinou · 10/10/2025 13:06

Grammarnut · 10/10/2025 12:49

Afaik there is no genocide in Gaza. Genocide has a high bar: the intentional erasure of a group because of cultural, religious or ethnic differences from another group. The slaughter of Armenians by Turkey around WWI is genocide, as is the Rwandan genocide, the holocaust which targeted Jews and Roma as ethnic minorities (and also slew those with the wrong political opinions along with people considered 'substandard' in other ways than being Communists, Jews or Roma, i.e. being physically or mentally disabled). What is going on in Sudan appears to be genocide, as does the killing of Christians in Nigeria. I am not sure about Yemen - though the Houthis are of the same ilk as Hamas and Hezbollah (and apparently are also backed by Iran). The attacks on Druze in Syria may make the critieria, I am not sure. The acts of Oct 7th 2023 do meet the genocide criteria both in the use of rape (this tactic was used by what was W.Pakistan against what was then E. Pakistan in the 1971 war there), and killing of everyone who met the criteria of Jew or Jewish fellow-traveller e.g. Thai workers etc.
Gaza does not meet these criteria (and the ICC did not say it did, either) but appears to be normal warfare with the addition of telling people in targeted areas that there will be a strike/incursion and to move to a designated safe (or safer) area - this is an unusual war tactic, e.g. Germany did not use it towards the British during the Blitz, they arrived, killed and left. There is also the provision of aid by the enemy, augmenting aid from the UN. Neither of these tactics suggest genocidal intention, rather they suggest that removal of military threat is the intention.

War crimes are being committed, however, by Hamas in hiding among the civilian population and in buildings such as schools and hospitals (which are supposed to be inviolate during war) using child soldiers, not being in uniform etc. Local feminist organisations are also reporting that women are faced with 'difficult choices' when getting food aid, by which they mean that Palestinian aid workers are demanding sex in exchange for food - a practice common in all seiges and known as rape. Source for this is The Women's Affairs Centre, though their director, Amal Syam, is not calling it rape but 'Israel's siege...(is) what's forcing women to resort to this' i.e. having to let Palestinian aid workers rape them and blaming the women for being raped.

The UN disagrees with you, but I’m sure you know better what with all your qualifications and experience as….?

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2025/09/israel-has-committed-genocide-gaza-strip-un-commission-finds

OP posts:
Grammarnut · 10/10/2025 12:49

Krakinou · 10/10/2025 00:09

It’s been interesting and reassuring to see how many women here do have strong feelings against the genocide in Gaza. After reading through, my impression is that the loudest voices (and those that slip in the dehumanizing comments to unrelated threads) are the ones who see the situation in a very simplistic and racist way. I can understand why others stay away from the topic on here, since obviously it’s not the purpose of FWR and a complex topic to discuss online.

Afaik there is no genocide in Gaza. Genocide has a high bar: the intentional erasure of a group because of cultural, religious or ethnic differences from another group. The slaughter of Armenians by Turkey around WWI is genocide, as is the Rwandan genocide, the holocaust which targeted Jews and Roma as ethnic minorities (and also slew those with the wrong political opinions along with people considered 'substandard' in other ways than being Communists, Jews or Roma, i.e. being physically or mentally disabled). What is going on in Sudan appears to be genocide, as does the killing of Christians in Nigeria. I am not sure about Yemen - though the Houthis are of the same ilk as Hamas and Hezbollah (and apparently are also backed by Iran). The attacks on Druze in Syria may make the critieria, I am not sure. The acts of Oct 7th 2023 do meet the genocide criteria both in the use of rape (this tactic was used by what was W.Pakistan against what was then E. Pakistan in the 1971 war there), and killing of everyone who met the criteria of Jew or Jewish fellow-traveller e.g. Thai workers etc.
Gaza does not meet these criteria (and the ICC did not say it did, either) but appears to be normal warfare with the addition of telling people in targeted areas that there will be a strike/incursion and to move to a designated safe (or safer) area - this is an unusual war tactic, e.g. Germany did not use it towards the British during the Blitz, they arrived, killed and left. There is also the provision of aid by the enemy, augmenting aid from the UN. Neither of these tactics suggest genocidal intention, rather they suggest that removal of military threat is the intention.

War crimes are being committed, however, by Hamas in hiding among the civilian population and in buildings such as schools and hospitals (which are supposed to be inviolate during war) using child soldiers, not being in uniform etc. Local feminist organisations are also reporting that women are faced with 'difficult choices' when getting food aid, by which they mean that Palestinian aid workers are demanding sex in exchange for food - a practice common in all seiges and known as rape. Source for this is The Women's Affairs Centre, though their director, Amal Syam, is not calling it rape but 'Israel's siege...(is) what's forcing women to resort to this' i.e. having to let Palestinian aid workers rape them and blaming the women for being raped.

Courgett · 10/10/2025 12:34

Shedmistress · 10/10/2025 12:09

Are you not actually commenting on the people you yourself follow and who the algorithm is sending you to?

Do you not understand how all this works?

I can only comment on the gender critical women I follow since I started my account in 2018. I feel like over that time I've managed to follow the majority of the voices in this field. As I mentioned earlier, JCJ (who I have a lot of respect for) is the only one who is pro-Palestine.

Perhaps some other X users can add others which I have overlooked?

PrettyDamnCosmic · 10/10/2025 12:32

Howseitgoin · 10/10/2025 00:03

You aren't the boss of MN….

And btw I'm a CIS woman as in birthed two children. Are you even a mother given this is MUMSnet?

Edited

It’s patently obvious that you are a bloke. Your choice of words for your lies are interesting too as that other FWR irritant Tandoori also claims to have “birthed” two children.

Shedmistress · 10/10/2025 12:09

Courgett · 10/10/2025 11:07

Maybe, I was more commenting across wider GC circles as per the OP - the support for Israel on X by gender critical women is almost unanimous for example.

Are you not actually commenting on the people you yourself follow and who the algorithm is sending you to?

Do you not understand how all this works?

FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 10/10/2025 11:57

You are assuming.

You have no idea what I think or believe or perceive. I am not sure the motives of this are anything different to posters force teaming to try and making women wanting sex based rights into a public enemy.

Courgett · 10/10/2025 11:56

FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 10/10/2025 11:50

Why would you assume that the 'major gender critical voices' you hear personally speak for all women wanting sex based rights and are representative of their views? It's not a political party, or an organisation, there's not a membership.

I'm not assuming anything. As I said above, I'm simply relaying what is easily observable amongst gender critical voices on X.

FortheloveofPetethePlumber · 10/10/2025 11:50

Why would you assume that the 'major gender critical voices' you hear personally speak for all women wanting sex based rights and are representative of their views? It's not a political party, or an organisation, there's not a membership.