My reason for asking was this seems a very obvious question if he has also been quizzed about what he would do in future.

Given what we know about him already, it seems highly unlikely that he would have explained himself to any patient before examining or treating them.

What I have also missed is whether A&E was his first rotation as "Beth".

Having spent time extremely ill, unconscious or drugged up to the eye-balls on morphine on several occasions in A&E, Assessment Admissions, High Dependency Unit, mixed-sex and (supposedly) single-sex pre-op and post-op women's wards or bays over the years, medics don't always even introduce themselves adequately or intelligibly before they "touch" your body externally or internally. That or the patient is not in a position to be fully or even partly aware of the invasion, let alone the sex of the medic or nurse.

So I am wondering how confident Upton is that a previous patient will not come forward with a complaint that Upton assaulted them? Or how confident NHS Fife is that Upton has never examined or treated a patient who had previously requested a female-only service?

(The Sandie Peggie threads have already rehearsed all the arguments about whether or not it is reasonable or practical for a patient to expect female-only care on A&E so I don't want to re-open that debate.)

As far as patient wishes and consent are concerned, I am also wondering if that preference is recorded in NHS England Spine records and Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland equivalents? (And if not, why not?)

NHS SCOTLAND

Emergency care summary

Most patients in Scotland now have an Emergency Care Summary containing basic information about your health in case of an emergency.

NHS staff can also use your Emergency Care Summary if your GP refers you to an outpatient clinic or for admission to hospital to check your details.

Before any member of staff looks at your Emergency Care Summary, they must get your consent.

Specialist health records

Patients with particular needs or living with long-term conditions may also have a Key Information Summary containing information that NHS staff should know.
The Key Information Summary might contain:

• an emergency contact
• information about a patients condition
• what treatment the patient is having

https://www.nhsinform.scot/care-support-and-rights/health-rights/confidentiality-and-data-protection/health-records

I would have thought NHS Fife would have been on firmer ground if it had suspended Upton, ie. while it opened an investigation to find out if he had already assaulted any patients.

This 100%

Trying for a baby. WTF?!

It wouldnt matter anyway. Why if he genuinely saw himself as Jesus? Doesn't make it true.

If he can't be trusted to respect the need for womens consent, for whatever reason, he should be removed from his post.

genuinely sees himself as female? Are you having a laugh, he is a sheep in wolfs clothing. There is not one single thing about this man female. He is married to a woman and according to reports trying for a baby!

Were none of the people giving their ‘evidence’ at the tribunal aware of the outcome of the disciplinary hearing?
Wouldn’t they have had to have been involved in it?

I think this hits quite a few points.

https://x.com/boswelltoday/status/1946093087547396541?s=12

“If Peggie wins, Teddy Upton will not walk away untouched. He will become the man whose presence in a female changing room leads to a legal finding that a woman’s rights were violated.

No policy will protect him. No pronouns will undo it. The judgment will stand as a public reckoning—her sex-based boundaries will be upheld, and his identity claim will be shown to have come at her expense.

This will not blow over. It will follow him into every job interview, every safeguarding discussion, every room where women’s trust must be earned. HR departments will take notice. Employers will think twice. His name will come with a question mark he cannot remove.

He will not just be remembered. He will be marked.”

I think for him, he will have felt that all he did was what the transgender support groups taught everyone was the acceptable way for him to think and behave.

I’m not sure if he was asked if he had already done so, it was more a question in the realm of hypotheticals.

You’ll get a really good idea of how he was in court and his general character from reading the visceral reaction of women watching live and following TT to his testimony and whole performative circus, preserved for posterity in threads no 4-15 of the live tribunal threads.

I think by him ignoring the consent and awareness of biological women — this is in fact misogyny in action. He has little regard and empathy for biological women. His preferences trump theirs. He is narcissistic and entitled. This is not a doctor I would like to be treated by, and I’m surprised he’s allowed to practice.

I think trans medical staff or indeed all medical staff need to undergo reflective practice about this very dilemma. No one should be allowed to pass whereby they are ignoring or deliberately going against the consent of patients. This is in fact dangerous and poor patient care.

It is also very interesting (and eye-opening) how manipulative he is — whereby he raised supposed patient care concerns against Sandie. It is him himself that is guilty of that, not Sandie.

I am catching up on the case and missed the whole part of Upton in court.

😭

Has he ever been asked if he has already examined or treated anyone, male or female, particularly involving any intimate procedure, whilst "presenting as a woman", ie. as "Beth" rather than as Theodore?

100%.

His state of mind at the time will still be taken into account & there is plenty of evidence that he sees himself as female ( even if many of us consider him delusional).

Why? Is the state of mind of any other man taken into account when they disregard a woman's consent?

Dr Upton has stated he will disregard the consent of female patients and treat them anyway.

Dr Upton disregarded Sandie Peggie's lack of consent to share a changing room with him and undress in front of him.

I know exactly what I think of a man who does that, how about you?

@Twiglets1 if I really really see myself as a doctor and buy a white coat and stethoscope off Amazon, should I be allowed to treat patients even though I have no medical training? Or is it only men who claim to be female thst get thst prerogative?

He’s a predator. He deliberately invaded the female changing room and persecuted a woman brave enough to say no. He tried to have her sacked because she wouldn’t go along with his fantasy.

Yes. I watched him do it.

@Helleofabore but under oath he testified that sex is nebulous and he is a woman

And I still don’t understand why it should matter if he thinks of himself as female or not. He is a trained doctor and he should understand this basic objective fact. He is male and it is an objective fact.

@Twiglets Legally if he touches a female patient without consent it is assault. If he conducts an intimate examination that would be assault by penetration and abuse of trust. A custodial sentence would be appropriate. However the female would need to know and be willing to give evidence and she's probably be gaslit by everyone.

Since that is the legal position perhaps we could agree he has the intention to commit crimes against women.

I'd also like to point out that Upton is in a heterosexual relationship with his actually biologically female wife.

I think that's quite important to remember in this discussion regarding the non-consent of his female patients asking for same sex intimate care.

Upton does not see himself as a woman.

He sees himself as separate to men, but not the same as women. He sees himself above women.

Stating he is biologically female is a demonstration of power and control over women.

It is not a statement that he sees himself as a woman.

Understand what is actually going on by reading the full details of the case.

Then you need to get reading!

You could start here NHS Fife tries to silence nurse | Mumsnet

It absolutely does not!

Consent is fucking important! Consent is the sole proviso of the patient to give, not his to take.

He has already admitted in a court of law that even if a female patient had asked for same sex intimate care he would ignore her and continue unless she was able to advocate for herself and object!

Furthermore he stated that if a patient was to object to him presenting himself for intimate care after she had requested same sex care that he would consider that an act of aggression, which he could then use to bar the patient from medical care!

To borrow an old MN favourite, are you on glue?!

The point at which I lost every last vestige of sympathy for Dr Upton was when he stated on oath that if a woman had asked for same sex care, he would happily waltz in there and treat her. That is totally trampling upon consent. And that one statement alienated so many doctors who had previously not really thought much about this topic at all.

Indeed. Makes one wonder what his bedside manner was like. <shudders>